www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ratzinger - "It Will Not Be Possible to State Homosexuality Objectively Disordered"

byzanTn and Amado,

I was just alerted to your posts. Given the tenor of the Town Hall during the last few days, I would have expected a bit more disgression. As the moderator, I find your humor inappropriate, and I am deleting your posts.

Sed contra in regard in attempting to draw a completely diametrically opposed distinction between the terms "sodomite" and "homosexual".

Per Websters New Collegiate the primary definition for sodomy is "copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal" with a preface in regard to "homosexual proclivities."

Similarly, homosexual is defined as "one who is inclined toward or practices homosexuality."

Homosexuality is defined as "the manifestation of sexual desire toward a member of one's own sex, and erotic activity with a member of one's own sex."

So it is not correct to imply that the terms homosexual and sodomite are not related, and thus cannot be used synonomously.

Moreover, per the events of Genesis 19, the inhabitants of The Cities of the Plain in question did not have relations with the Angels, but rather only desired them, which was bad enough in the eyes of God Almighty Who struck them blind before destroying them, their wicked city, and all the inhabitants thereof post Lot's family exodus.

What must be remembered is that God, being Perfect Good, did not create man on a fast track to hell. That came because of the actions of the devil, i.e., The Fall and Original Sin, with the resulting consequences being specificaly, man's concupisence toward sin.

There is no such thing as a "homosexual person." Inclinations to aberrant lifestyles do not define who you are as a person. Rather, there are individuals who are inclined to homosexual acts who must be told the truth that the Church teaching is to leave, not live, unnatural lifestyles for the sake of their eternity. That's real love. To do otherwise is showing nothing but hate.

The comparisons between the traditional Church teaching on sins against nature vs. the post-conciliar attitude is striking as upon examination of Sacred Scripture and Tradition in the form of statements from the Popes, Councils, Saints, and Apologists combined with the tradition of civil legislation to show the moral chasm that has resulted when the language of �pseudo charity� replaces the language of �tough love� for salvation�s sake. The result being that the necessary feelings of revulsion toward those proudly trumpeting their sodomite tendencies are no longer there opening the door for a misplaced compassion that such individuals do not deserve.

There are differences between an ontological dignity to which all are entitled by virtue of being made in the image and likeness of God, and a moral dignity as a function of being endowed with an intellect and will whereby good can be accepted and evil rejected. Moral dignity does not exist for sodomites, a distinction that the post-conciliar Church never makes using language that would have us erroneously believe that there exists something called the homosexual person, a concept which turns Christian anthropology on its head making God, Who is Perfect Good, out to be a liar in creating man with a built-in one way ticket to hell in complete ignorance of the effect of the concupiscence due to Original Sin.

Words have consequences with a litany of saints to include St. John Chrysostom telling us that �A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these (sodomites) destroy the soul inside the body� vs. the post-conciliar attitude of Cardinal Basil Hume who was quoted as saying �The particular orientation or inclination of the homosexual person is not a moral failing �. Being a homosexual person is, then, neither morally good nor morally bad; it is homosexual genital acts that are morally wrong.�

By reducing moral culpability only to acts, Cardinal Hume (and the entirety of the post-conciliar Church) appeared to legitimize sinful thoughts and words. However, such concessions incur culpability with regard to the vice of homosexuality like any other vice, as Catholic doctrine has ALWAYS taught.

The rest is history as Hume opened the door for the condemnation of homosexuality in the post-conciliar Church to be needlessly qualified, if at all, something that Saints Peter, Jude, Pius V, Basil of Cesarea, Augustine, Aquinas, John Chrysostom, Gregory the Great, Peter Damian, Albert the Great, Bonaventure, Catherine of Sienna, Bernardine of Sienna, Peter Canisius, and the councils of Ancyra, Toledo, Nablus, and Third Lateran did not suffer.

Dear Father Deacon John,
Clearly you are a Christian gentleman and a scholar - and these days there are very few of us left! Just finished salivating all over that web site. I shall plan to order an Imperial Torte with which to celebrate the first anniversary of the beatification of the Blessed Emperor Charles. Since the Blessed Emperor Charles was also Apostolic King of Hungary, the Imperial Torte for that occasion must of course be king-size.
I suggest that lots of us do this, both from devotion to the Blessed Emperor (which is clearly our primary motive!) and in what will in any case be a most enjoyable effort to figure out the recipe. I trust that they are required at least to list the ingredients somewhere on the package; with that information we may embark upon a process of trial and error- the errors, of course, we shall consume.
Joking aside, thank you again. I am most sincerely grateful - I haven't had an Imperial Torte in a good ten years, and I'm looking forward to it most eagerly.

Incognitus

Its good to see that these annoying series of threads on the inconsequential issue of the loss of Christians' rights to defend the gospel message about morality have moved on to a far more appropriate and evangelicly pressing subject, pastries.

:rolleyes:

It's more wholesome and to the taste of many here

Dear Incognitus,

I am completely in agreement with you on the central issue of Imperial Tortes, and shall search dilligently for the recipe. Perhaps we can have a Torte forum??

Gaudior, who agrees this is an important issue