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Pope approves barring gay seminarians

CWNews.com
9/19/05

Link to original [cwnews.com]

Excerpt:

Vatican, Sep. 19 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document indicating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained as Catholic priests.

The new document-- which was prepared by the Congregation for Catholic Education, in response to a request made by the late Pope John Paul II (bio - news) in 1994-- will be published soon. It will take the form of an "Instruction," signed by the prefect and secretary of the Congregation: Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski and Archbishop Michael Miller.

What about those inclined to alcoholism or women or any of the other vices, lets get rid of them too.
Stephanos I

Just as a general point of information.

In the User Agreement of the Byzantine Forum, posters "agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

Additionally, the posting of the entire article is a violation of CWN's Terms and Conditions. [cwnews.com] (cf. paragraph #2)

Links to articles are entirely appropriate, and not an infringement of the copyright.

I'm sorry to digress from this timely topic, but we need to remember that intellectual property rights seem to be something that is violated every day.

Commercial over.

Don't be more Catholic than the Pope

Please correct/edit my post then. Thanks for posting this reminder. (It is the first time I've ever seen this pointed out in a thread. Wonder why...)

Stephanos,

I know you're speaking tongue-in-cheek, but if the logic was thorough then they really should bar alcoholics from the priesthood. I don't see the wisdom in allowing alcoholics to be priests, since they are constantly surrounded by alcohol. Alcoholism and homosexual tendencies are a disease and disorder, respectively. Heterosexual inclination is neither.

To All,

I do agree that men with disorders such as homosexual inclination (this is your cue, P.C. peanut gallery) shouldn't be parish priests or monks, since they're constantly bombarded with temptations and themselves suffer from a mental disorder. Of course, in a perfect world this document and its regulations could be implemented and everyone would be happy.

Unfortunately for us, we live in reality. This will only serve to incite homosexually-inclined seminarians to lie about their inclinations. Not that it isn't the case now, but this just means that many priests' entire ministries were begun through sin (lying). SO MANY priests beginning their ordained life through lying to their superiors is *not* the answer.

To me, there just doesn't seem to be a clear answer. All in all, I don't think it's the homosexuality that's causing the problem; it's our culture.

Not many heterosexual young men in our culture would want to sacrifice a well-paying job and a wife for a celibate life serving others and getting paid next to nothing. Myself included. We must change our societal mindset before anything can really be remedied.

Logos Teen

What needs to be done?

I agree with the Church on this one, in a way. ALL priests are called to chastity and celibacy (or a form of celibacy within marriage), be they straight or gay men. Straight men should not act on their sexual desires, either. The Vatican seems to be implying that gay men can't control themselves, which I don't think is a fair thing to say.

However, I know what they mean when they say the priesthood is becoming a bit of a "gay" profession -- or at least a very effeminate male one, in some people's opinion (not mine -- I've met only a very few guys I wondered about).

However (again), my classmates have just recently been ordained to the priesthood, and none of their class even seemed at all gay or effeminite. Of course, we attended St. Charles Borromeo RC Seminary in Philly, which was pretty hard-core right (when I was there, anyway). I can remember a few guys getting kicked out of seminary for being gay -- at least that was the rumor. We always knew when a real hetero guy left, because he'd always come back to visit on a holiday with some hot girl on his arm.

But it was really all rumor and speculation. I've been told with many guys who may feel they are gay or otherwise not a normal heterosexual (pedophile, e.g.), they may think a life dedicated to God will "cure" them -- this never works out.

There are those who would point out that we need to be a more conservative Church overall. They will tell you to look at the RC diocese of Lincoln, NE, which just built a seminary and is teeming with vocations. Why? They will say it is because the bishop there is staunchly conservative. SSPX seems to be growing in vocations, too. Many Orthodox diocese seem to be getting lots of vocations these days, too.

There are certain neuroses and psychoses specifically related to SSAD (Same Sex Attraction Disorder.) Fortunately, to a well-trained spiritual director, these symptoms become blatantly obvious over 8 years of seminary training and living with candidates for ordination.

Therefore, even if they "lie," a good holy wise and prayerful seminary spiritual director will be able to recognize the vast majority of men so afflicted over 8 years of training them and living amongst them.

It was done routinely prior to the late 1950's. Just ask any older priest and especially experienced spiritual directors. Its not difficult, and the men so afflicted can be quietly and charitably released.

It was done before.

It can, and must, be done again.

The Pope has provided sane, charitable guidance here. I suggest we all prayerfully consider it and refrain from sarcasm or vitriol or censorship in discussing it on this thread.

Please don't assume any agendas, I tried to contact you via PM but you were set up not to receive PM's.

BTW, you are not the first to receive this message.

Garrett- Please note that the ban does not mention monastic life at all; indeed that would seem a good place for those afflicted with same-sex attraction. After all, they are destined for a celibate life; doesn't it make sense for them to live this life spiritually, supported by brethren, heterosexual as well as homosexual, intent on living the Gospel in a radical way?
I have always thought that homosexuals should not be ordained as priests because the priestly vocation is by nature spousal , the priest representing Christ, Bridegroom of the Church. As grace builds on nature, this presupposes a capacity to be a bridegroom; ie, a heterosexual orientation.
-Daniel

Let us see what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about this particular issue:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

And let us see what does the Catechism say about the offenses against chastity both by homosexual and heterosexual people:


Offenses against chastity

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. The one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.Prostitution is a social scourge. It usually involves women, but also men, children, and adolescents (The latter two cases involve the added sin of scandal.). While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.

2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.

Without forgetting the offences against the dignity of marriage, taking into account that in the Eastern (both Catholic and not Catholic)and Western Churches (non Catholic Churches, former Anglican and Lutheran Catholic priests) we have married priests and deacons:

IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE

Adultery

2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.172 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.

2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents' stable union.

Divorce

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:


If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.
2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.

Other offenses against the dignity of marriage

2387 The predicament of a man who, desiring to convert to the Gospel, is obliged to repudiate one or more wives with whom he has shared years of conjugal life, is understandable. However polygamy is not in accord with the moral law." [Conjugal] communion is radically contradicted by polygamy; this, in fact, directly negates the plan of God which was revealed from the beginning, because it is contrary to the equal personal dignity of men and women who in matrimony give themselves with a love that is total and therefore unique and exclusive." The Christian who has previously lived in polygamy has a grave duty in justice to honor the obligations contracted in regard to his former wives and his children.

2388 Incest designates intimate relations between relatives or in-laws within a degree that prohibits marriage between them. St. Paul stigmatizes this especially grave offense: "It is actually reported that there is immorality among you . . . for a man is living with his father's wife. . . . In the name of the Lord Jesus . . . you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. . . . " Incest corrupts family relationships and marks a regression toward animality.

2389 Connected to incest is any sexual abuse perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents entrusted to their care. The offense is compounded by the scandalous harm done to the physical and moral integrity of the young, who will remain scarred by it all their lives; and the violation of responsibility for their upbringing.

2390 In a so-called free union, a man and a woman refuse to give juridical and public form to a liaison involving sexual intimacy.

The expression "free union" is fallacious: what can "union" mean when the partners make no commitment to one another, each exhibiting a lack of trust in the other, in himself, or in the future?

The expression covers a number of different situations: concubinage, rejection of marriage as such, or inability to make long-term commitments.All these situations offend against the dignity of marriage; they destroy the very idea of the family; they weaken the sense of fidelity. They are contrary to the moral law. The sexual act must take place exclusively within marriage. Outside of marriage it always constitutes a grave sin and excludes one from sacramental communion.

2391 Some today claim a "right to a trial marriage" where there is an intention of getting married later. However firm the purpose of those who engage in premature sexual relations may be, "the fact is that such liaisons can scarcely ensure mutual sincerity and fidelity in a relationship between a man and a woman, nor, especially, can they protect it from inconstancy of desires or whim." Carnal union is morally legitimate only when a definitive community of life between a man and woman has been established. Human love does not tolerate "trial marriages." It demands a total and definitive gift of persons to one another.

From my humble point of view (I confess I do not know very much about the life of the American priests or about what really is happening at American seminaries whether they are becoming refugies for people with homosexual tendencies or not) the marrital status (married or single) or the sexual tendencies (heterosexual, homosexual) has nothing to do with the vocation to the holy priesthood. From my point of view they should be admited to the holy priesthoow only candidates in love with their specific vocation of service to the christian community, sure about their personal election of marrital (marriage or monastic/consecrated life in any of its forms) status and ready to fight everyday to remain faithful to their christian vocation (at the Catechism we can read "All the baptized are called to chastity").

Yesterday while at the doctors office, a friend asked me to read her magazine. The entire magazine - one for Pentecostal ministers - was devoted to sexual addiction problems of clergy. It stated that half the calls received by a Christian radio program(one we all recognize, but I am not certain that I have the right one, so I am not saying it) had to do with sexual problems. Of those 1/3 were about sexual problems of clergy. So it is really a big problem all over.

Teen--

And priests who have OSA (Opposite Sex Attraction) don't suffer from a bombardment of temptations?

As for your comment about SSA (Same Sex Attraction) being a mental disorder, I'll leave that one alone.

You are right though, our culture overall is to blame, not any one group of people.

John K

DocBrian--

What is the training that these spiritual directors receive? Are all or most psychologists or mental health professionals as well as clergy? Just wondering.

John K

There seem to be two topics here, so I hope I can ask this without being "off-topic." Does the ban on copyrighted material mean you can provide a link, but you can't quote any part of a copyrighted article? I thought brief quotes from published material were generally allowed. Please clarify.
Michele