www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Old Byzantine/Orthodox prayer books.

Does anyone know if they still publish those old phontetic prayerbooks and missels for Greek Catholics and Orthodox? THose (IF anyone recals) were the ones with english on one page and Slavonic/Latinized lettering on the other. I pretty much guess that no one may make them anymore but if anyone knows where they sell old ones, I would appreciate their reply.
Also, I remeber seeing years ago a bok called the "Greek Catholic Missel", does anyone know if this is still published?
Robert K.

Robert,

Perhaps you're thinking of the Byzantine Missal which was the precursor to Byzantine Daily Worship? It was also compiled by Archbishop Joseph (Raya) and Baron Jose de Vinck. Although the "Missal"'s content was quite Latinized in comparison to BDW.

Christ has Ascended!

Dear Robert,

I believe the book you want is "Chlib Dusi" (Bread for the Soul) It was compiled by Fr. Alexander Dukhnovich a 19th century Carpatho-Rusyn scholar. It contains Vespers, Matins, Divine Liturgy, Morning and Evening prayers, Communion prayers and so forth all with English and phonetic Old Slavonic on facing pages.

It costs $15 and is printed by Holoviak's. Remember that the pronunciation and the selection of prayers reflect more the Carpatho-Rusyn, Ukrainian, Slovak, Hungarian, and Belarusian practice rather than the Russian tradition. Ask for a copy with black covers. White is for the girls. I highly recommend it. Please let me know what you think of it.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.

[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

I recently acquired a copy of this prayer book at an OCA parish. It is very interesting and I think it gives some examples of 'Latinizations' which may have crept into Orthodoxy.

I am enjoying my copy.

Best Wishes to All!
Stefan-Ivan

Dear Stefan-Ivan,

BTW, Latinizations that are in Orthodoxy are the only ones I practice!

If they're good for them, they're good for me.

Alex

Thanks, actually I have that wonderful prayerbook already. It is really an amazingly compiled masterpiece of liturgics, I I may say so.
Are there any more like this one published?

Also, is the book specifically Greek Catholic or interchangable for the Orthodox (Im wondering since I notice that their is no imprimatur from a Bishop in the front)?

Robert K.

The first editions of Chlib dus~i were compiled by Father Aleksander Duchnovic~, the "national awakener" of the Rusyns, who was a liturgist and canon of the Pres~ov Eparchy in the 1st half of the 19th century. I believe the Vestal edition (English & Slavonic) still has his name in it - "Sostavil: o. Aleksander Duchnovic~" or something close to that. However, this edition was prepared by some Orthodox person because it doesn't have filioque or commemoration of the Pope of Rome. It was most likely printed in Perth Amboy, New Jersey. The older editions of Chlib dus~i from Europe are in Slavonic only (of course) and in general much larger than the American version. It appeared in several versions, including a Hungarian-language edition, an edition in Latin letters but using Hungarian orthography (e.g., "Blahoszlovenno czarsztvo otcza i sz�na i szvyataho duha..."), a Galician edition using Polish orthography, etc. But the Vestal edition now sold by Holoviak's is the only one, to my knowledge, that was ever produced in the USA.

Christ has Ascended!

Dear Lemko Rusyn,

Thank you for such an informative post! I recently had the privilege of actually seeing a copy of an older edition of Chlib Dusi printed at Uzhorod in the 1920's. It was a wedding gift to a Carpatho-Rusyn lady who attends my Russian Catholic parish. It is a beautiful book and it was printed in Church Slavonic. I did not check for the filioque but I did note the mention of the pope in the litanies and odd symbols following the words of the consecration. I later concluded that they were bells!

Is Chlib Dusi still printed in Ukraine? Are the modern editions in Old Slavonic, Rusyn, or Ukrainian? Could you tell me a little more about the Hungarian editions? Is there an edition currently in print in Hungarian? I might want to get one for myself.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors pray for us.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

Christ has Ascended!

Dear friends,

Has anyone ever seen a bilingual (Hungarian/English) prayerbook for Hungarian Greek Catholics? I am also interested bilingual prayerbooks used by Ukrainians. I recently acquired an Ukrainian-English Orthodox prayer book from the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America. The cost is $7. It comes in black and white covers. It is pocket-sized and comes harbound with a "Russian" cross on the front.

I suppose that the earlier bilingual prayer books used by Ukrainians were Old Slavonic-English. Are any of the Old Slavonic-English prayer books still obtainable?

Thanks.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

Where could I get a copy?

Thanks. Robert

Christ has Ascended!

Dear Robert,

My parish sells them. I could send you a copy by mail. I would have to charge postage and shipping. You can give me your address offline.

Alex, Stefan-Ivan, and Lemko Rusyn might not like the idea of a Russian parish selling a Ukie prayer book. My parish might be visited by some of the Ukrainian Knights of Columbus.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.

Paul;

When I visited the Shrine of the Weeping Virgin of Mariapocs (Burton, Ohio) in 1999 they had copies of the "Main Srvices of Holy Week and Glorious Resurrection" in Hungarian and English.

The cover is the same as the Slavonic version from 1950. I didn't examine it too closely since I don't know very much Hungarian, (except for Sluzh Maria, and goulas).

I think the Sisters who run the shrine would be happy to mail you one. Sorry, I don't remember what they cost. They had a stack of them.

With Best Regards,
Stefan-Ivan

Don't worry, it's better than us selling Russian ones. Ha Ha Ha

Christ has Ascended!

Dear Stefan-Ivan,

Thank you for that information! I will write to the sisters. My personal favorite among bilingual prayer books is the "Svit" prayer book published by St. Tikhon's Press. It is also sometimes called "St. Tikhon's Prayerbook" and "Molitvoslov." I suppose that means
"prayerbook" in Old Church Slavonic. It has Old Slavonic (Cirillic script) and English on facing pages. I have learned enough Slavonic to pray a few prayers. I love it. It contains not only the Divine Liturgy but also Vespers, Matins, Morning and Evening prayers, daily prayers, Akathists, etc. I recommend this book to anyone who wishes to learn and pray even a few prayers in Old Slavonic.

Since this book contains the actual Old Slavonic texts it can be used by anyone who can read Old Slavonic. It can be used by Carpatho-Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, as well as the Russian Orthodox by whom it was compiled.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCathmartyrs and confessors, pray for us.

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

Dear Paul;

Thanks for the information. I understand what you are saying. I just couldn't pass the opportunity to poke a little fun...

I hope I gave you correct information about the book I saw being Hungarian/English and not Hungarian/Slavonic.

One of my most cherished religious experiences was my opportinity to participate in Divine Services at Sainte Trinite Russian Catholic Church in Paris in 1986 when I was working on my French degree. I loved it and I am glad that you have a similar opportunity there in LA.

Stefan

Im very interested in finding out more about the Russian Catholic Church in Paris?

Could you give us some details as to what its like and how many people go there?

THanks again. Robert

Dear Robert;

The information I have about what's going on at Sainte Trinite currently is primarily from the Internet.

Keep in mind that I was a frequent visitor there in 1986, which was a while ago (how time flys!).

Sainte Trinite is more like a chapel than a church. It is located in the lower level of an appartment building or office building in the 16th arrondisment of Paris. It is located at 39 rue Francois-Gerard. The Metro stop closest is Eglise d'Auteuil.

As I mentioned, the chapel is more like "garden level" and people must descend a small flight of stairs to enter. The chapel is smaller, it could hold about 60 people or so. Usually there were 25 to 30 people there. The age ranges were diverse, (more so than at the Ukrainian cathedral St. Volodymyr le Grand, where there were far more senior citizens than youth). At Ste. Trinite, there were older people, middle age, and thirty-somethings, many with small children. There were not many college age people though, only on Pascha.

At that time the pastor was the Mitered Archpriest Georges Rochau; I think he is still living, but retired. Another priest, a Jesuit named Fr. Bernard Dupire assisted. I think he is now the pastor.

The Liturgy was in Slavonic, with the Epistle, Gospel, and sermon en francais. This was for me a main draw since I come from a parish in the St. Nicholas Eparchy which used Slavonic exclusively up until 1986 or so.

People could go to confession in the proper manner at an analogian before the Gospel book.

Present on the walls were large icons of St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Tikhon of Zadonsk (I think). They closed the curtain at the proper times at the Liturgy, and there were no abbreviations in the Liturgy.

Another interesting thing people did was exchange a "kiss of peace" every time they exchanged the greeting "Christos Voskerese" to one another, not just on Pascha but even afterwords.

They, of course, are Old Calendarists.

As I said, I am really very grateful for having the opportunity to worship there for four of the six months I lived in Paris.

This is the only link I could find off hand, scroll down to the bottom of the page for their listing.
http://www.russie.net/france/eglises.htm

So are you going to Paris soon? If so, I'll send along a shopping list.

Hope this helps.

Stefan-Ivan

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Stefan-Ivan ]

I love the Old Believer prayer book out of the Erie (PA) parish and use it frequently. It is nicely bound, with the old-style Slavonic script on the left and English on the right. Of interest to anyone looking for pre-Niconian prayers and worship. Several Old Believer parishes came into the UGCC under Blessed Metropolitan Sheptytsky but I think most were liquidated under the Communists.

Christos Mizh Nami and My Divine Friend are some old Metropolitan Bohachevsky - era prayer books still around, with parallel Slavonic in Cyrillic and English. Also I understand the Dolnytsky books can be obtained from Svichado, the Studite publishers in Ukraine. I have a very small (about 5 inches by 3 inches) version of the Duchnovich prayer book published for a while by the Greek Catholic Union (GCU). It is Slavonic in Latin letters and the print is darn near microscopic, and not in real good shape anymore. A very old and dear Rusin lady from near Priashev gave it to me when her eyes were too bad to use it.

I also have just a Divine Liturgy missal/pew book of the Old Slavonic Divine Liturgy in English on one side and transliterated Latin letters for pronunciation (Sla-va Ot-tsu i Si-nu, etc.) on the other side done by Father Casimir Kucharek of blessed memory in Canada, no date but I'm guessing 1960s or late 1950s.
Subdeacon Randolph, a sinner

There are also several versions of transliterated Ukrainian pew books (English on one side, transliterated phonetic Ukrainian in Latin letters on the other) around that are easy to get. These are more recent as Ukrainian was only introduced in the 1960s or 1970s in many places in the UGCC.

Has anyone ever seen the large soft covered black prayerbook for the Byzantine metropolia with english and latinized Slavonic letters? My parish has them although they are rarely used (IMO) since most parishioners know the liturgy by heart.

I forget the exact name of this book, but I would be happy if anyone would know where I could get a copy.

Robert K.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

How interesting Stefan-Ivan! Thank you for the information on Holy Trinity, our sister parish in Paris. If I visit France I would certainly want to attend a liturgy there.

Diak, thank you for the information on the older Ukrainian bilingual books. I will check with my Ukrainian friends. The local parish uses a bilingual book approved for use in the Toronto Eparchy in 1973 by Bishop Isidore. It is a Ukrainian/English book. Perhaps they still have a few copies of the older Slavonic/English liturgy books.

I also have a copy of a bilingual liturgy book for the Russian service. The Slavonic is rendered by the modern Russian alphabet. This book uses the current OCA translation. It is an "Orthodox pew" book. It contains the Divine Liturgy, texts for the eight tones, the major feasts, and the "prayers of thanksgiving after Communion." It is published by Olga Poloukhine. The litanies contain no specifics regarding hierarchs or heads of state. It could be used by a Russian Church in any English-speaking country. The cost is $10.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.



[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

Christ is Risen!
Robert K - I think you are referring to the "Byzantine Book of Prayer", which is fairly small and black which is produced by the Byzantine Seminary Press. This is English only, I don't know if they have any parallel English/Slavonic prayer books. Give them a call.

The book currently available from them in both English and Slavonic parallel text that I know of is the Divine Liturgy pew book lished in 1978 with parallel English and Church Slavonic in Latin letters ("Slovak" style) and is also available from the Byzantine Seminary Press in Pittsburgh I believe in either hard bound or soft bound. This is the service book I have seen in 80% or greater of the Ruthenian parishes I have visited. This is certainly not inclusive so you may want to call the bookstore in Pittsburgh or Icon and Book Service in D.C. and see what's available.

Subdeacon Randolph, a sinner

Wonderful news! Do you or anyone else perchance know the exact name of this book?

Thank you Robert K.

The Divine Liturgy pew book is simply called The Divine Liturgy on the outside cover, and The Divine Liturgy: A Book of Prayer for the Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil the Great on the inside, this is the Fr. Levkulic version of 1978 with parallel English and Slavonic.

The black prayer book I mentioned originally is the "Byzantine Book of Prayer". This is the entire title. Get the most current edition. This has the Divine Liturgy, Akathists and Molebens to both Jesus and the Theotokos, the Paraklisis, Parastas, Daily Prayers, Confession prayers, prayers before and after Communion, etc. all in English. Both are published by the Byzantine Seminary Press in Pittsburgh.

Subdeacon Randolph, a sinner

Glory to God for all things!

Dear friends,

My parish has a few copies of a bilingual book used for the Russian Divine Liturgy. It is the only bilingual Russian book I have seen that uses phonetic letters in place of the Cyrillic alphabet. I believe that it was specially printed and bound for our parish. Has anyone ever seen other bilingual books for use in Russian parishes?

Presviataya Bogoroditse Fatimsakaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.

[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]