www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Hebrew Catholics

Dear Friends,

There is a Hebrew Catholic Association which is seeking to establish what one might call a "Particular Church" or Israelite Community within the Catholic Church, much as what we are about.

And, of course, they are originally Eastern!

There site is at: http://www.secondexodus.com

I've learned the Sign of the Cross in Hebrew:

B'Shem haAV v'haBen v'Ruach haKodesh Elohim echod Amen!

Alex

The website seems to say that they aim to use the Latin rite as used by Hebrew Catholics in Israel. Would that they would pick up, in some form, the Holy Qurbana of Saint James, the original rite celebrated in Jerusalem, and use a real Semitic Liturgy in addition to their other Semitic customs...

Dear Qathuliqa,

I've been asked by them to do an article on Judaic traditions in Eastern Christianity and you can be sure that I'll recommend that!

Alex

Dear Alex,

When you do write that article, be sure to make certain that you refer to the Syrian James, and not the Byzantine James...most internet sources point to the latter, even though that's not the one I had in mind.

Dear Qathuliqa,

Good point, Big Guy!

I'm also going to include your comments about the way in which the four corners or "horns" of the altar are venerated in the Syriac tradition.

My Latin Hebrew friends are always so mesmerised whenever we get on the topic of the Eastern Churches and the Judaic practices that are there.

I think it wouldn't take too, too much to push them over the Eastern Church edge . . .

Shalom!

Alex

Dear Mor Ephrem:

Perhaps, the rendition of the Roman Rite in Hebrew by these Israelite Catholics must have been influenced by the works of certain Roman Catholic liturgists.

Considerable scholarship (such as that of Fr. Louis Boyer) suggests the close affinity of the Roman Rite proper with the Jewish prayers of the synagogue, which also accompanied the temple sacrifices.

While the origin of the current Roman Rite, even after Vatican II, can be traced directly only to the 4th century, these connections point to an ancient apostolic tradition brought to that city (Rome)that was decidedly Jewish in origin.

However, it would be a fitting tribute to their "Eastern-ness" if the Hebrew Catholics adopt the Rite of St. James (in Hebrew), as you suggested, it being the original rite of the Holy city of Jerusalem.

As an aside, do you know if a comparable group of Hebrew Orthodox (either EO or OO) exists? The Protestants have their "Jews for Jesus" thing going.

AmdG

To tell you the truth, Amado, I don't know. If anyone does know, I'd like to hear it myself...

I have been friends with the president of the Hebrew Catholic organization for a nearly a year. One of the things that I had mentioned to them is for them to become more Semitic in their liturgical traditions. Hopefully, they are taking that up now.

Yuhannon

I have mixed feelings about the Hebrew Catholic thing.

I am bothered by the idea that a "Hebrew Catholic Rite" would be something constructed, rather than an organic thing.

I am also rather amused and just a tad uncomfortable that AHC's calendar includes the Byzantine Churches' commemoration of OLD Testament saints, (because the Latin Calendar doesn't) but they don't include our NEW Testament saints or feasts!


Just a couple of musings from the Bat-Mitzvahed-before-Baptized Bear.


Sharon

[ 09-13-2002: Message edited by: Sharon Mech ]

Shlomo Sharon,


Two points, first a Hebrew rite would follow the Syriac Churches Liturgies which are the closest to the Hebrew Temple rituals of the 1st Century.

Second, the Byzantine Church is not the only one that commemorates the Old Testement Saints. Most Eastern Churches do, and a number of our parishes are located in the Holy Land also. The president of the Hewbrew Catholic Organization lives in Michigan, and I have put him in touch with the Maronite Communities out there.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Mother Sharon,

Yes, the Catholic West was never really "into" devotion to the Old Testament Saints.

We of the East always were and we have always honoured Adam and Eve as Saints, as they are depicted on the icon of the Resurrection of Christ.

The Ethiopians "take the cake" in this as their feast of Sts. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on Sept. 10th I believe is a national holiday. They also honour more obscure saints like St Aseneth, wife of St Joseph ben Jacob.

Hopefully, we of the East will one day call the Liturgy of St James by its rightful, de-Anglicized title, the "Liturgy of St Jacob!"

There is no reason why there cannot be a Particular Hebrew Catholic Church in communion with Rome, following a Hebraic Rite including the above liturgy.

And I'm also suggesting that theirs be a Patriarchal Church with the Patriarch of Jerusalem a Hebrew Catholic, as seems only proper.

Alex

Shlomo Alex,
To totally de-Anglicize it, it would be called the Liturgy of St. Yacob or in the Syriac: Qorbono Mar Yacob

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Yuhannon,

Perhaps you can be a liturgical advisor to a future Hebraic Patriarch of Jerusalem!

I think that it is great that they, the Hebrew Catholics, are relating themselves to their Jewish heritage.

The spin-off is that it will, hopefully and ultimately, help all Christians develop a more positive attitude toward our common spiritual Semitic heritage.

What is "Poosh?" As long as you don't consider me to be a "Poosh-over".

Alex

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Shlomo (Peace [to You]) Alex,

Poosh(Stay) Ba(in) Shlomo (Peace),
Yuhannon

Dear Yuhannon,

Thank you!

When Poosh comes to Shlomo . . .

God bless you!

Alex