www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Sr. Helen Prejean's request for published retraction re ad

Hi,

Well, according to her retraction letter, the draft she "signed" urged citiziens to call for the removal of George W. Buss from office becase of reasons like:

I would certainly agree that the present administration has conducted morally condemnable actions along these lines and would have no trouble whatsoever in signing such a document.

But of course, if later I found out that the final version of the document included among the reasons calling for an impeachment Bush's anti-abortion policy, I would also retract my signature even while still in agreement with the original points of the document.

My problem is not with Sr. Helen's actions (she is a woman I admire a great whole lot), but with the creators of the document, who very "conveniently" assumed Sr. Helen would still sign the final version of the document without her explicitly consenting to do so.

Shalom,
Memo

Having just returned from vacation a few days ago, and not having seen the followup comments, by others, to my comments, I want to clarify things on one point. I DO NOT give the "Right" a pass on everything. My political thinking is shaped totally by Catholic Social Teaching. I support "conservatives" or "liberals" when they line up with those teachings, and oppose them when they don't. I firmly believe in the notion of the "Social Kingship of Jesus Christ". Unfortunately, Catholic Social Teachings have never adequately been taught or promoted by the hierarchy in the U.S. Ironically, much of the blame for this neglect can be laid at the feet of none other than Archbishop John Ireland (the "Father of Eastern Orthodoxy in the U.S. "), who, erroneously, thought, and taught, that the USA was the "best place on the face of the earth" for the Catholic Church to prosper. After his being chastised on this point by Pope Leo XIII, these views were to be referred to as the "heresy of Americanism".

Dn. Robert

To follow this up, my diocese has canceled their annual dinner for Catholic schools after they un-invited her to speak. The reasons were along the lines of it would jeopardize its tax-exempt status, the ad was over the top in its partisanship, and the bishop does not like to have the Church overly political. The diocese said they couldn't find another speaker in time. I guess I don't know if it would impact the tax-exempt status. As for the other reasons, I can understand them but don't think they're enough to cancel an event that is this important to the the schools.

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/15339220.htm

So you would have opposed Father john Courtney Murray's teaching on the seperation of Church and State??

So you would have opposed Father john Courtney Murray's teaching on the seperation of Church and State?? [/QUOTE]

Good question. I'm not well-versed on Murray's writings, but I do know that he influenced, heavily, the Vatican II teaching on Religious Liberty, which some find difficult to reconcile with prior teachings of the Catholic Church in this area. Some have accused Murray of being an Ireland-type Americanist. I don't know enough about him to support such an accusation.

As to the question of "separation of Church and State", I think that, for good practical reasons, the Church and the State should be run separately. Bishops should not be legislators or presidents. Presidents and Prime Ministers should not govern churches. But, in an ideal situation, let's say that 90% or more of the American population, of their own volition, convert to Catholicism, I would see no problem with Catholicism being the official religion of the country (with the understanding that all have freedom of conscience to belong, or not belong to that Church, and can practice their own religion, or non-religion). Most people are not aware that, at the foundation of this Republic, several States had official religions (Congregationalism was the official religion of Massachusetts), and that was not considered to be in conflict with the Constitution. The latter document forbade the establishment of an official national religion, for practical reasons, primarily because there were so many different Christian religions already present here.
Also,ideally, I believe that the State should obey the Church in it's appropriately applicable teachings (i.e., esp. Social and Moral teachings).
While I prefer the Republican form of government, I would have no problem with the re-establishment of Christian Monarchy, in places where it may be desirable (For example, Solzhenitsyn always said that the Russian mentality requires a monarchical-type ruler). Tsarist Russia, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire were definitely not perfect, being human institutions. However, I would rather live under any of the Tsars, as opposed to Josef Stalin and his fellow criminals, the Bolsheviks. Even the worst of the Tsars did not purposely starve to death millions, like Stalin did in Ukraine. None of the Tsars even came close to the murderous human rights violations of the anti-Christian National Socialists of Adolph Hitler. In short, I think political secularism, of which Bolshevism and Nazism are extreme examples, has done great damage to civilization.

Dn. Robert

Father Deacon Robert,

Have you read this article [orthodoxytoday.org] written by Father Thomas Hopko? It states that the Pope should recuse himself from the monarchy of Vatican City and stick to the spiritual, along with a handful of things (some unnecessary in my understanding) before union can be accomplished.

That's probably the least controversial of the demands outlined in his "laundry list". What, in essence, he is saying is that the Pope should say "you guys were right, we were wrong". If this, or some future Pope were actually to do this, it would be a signal to me that I'm in the wrong Church!

I like to think that we might be able to suspend our political filters as we listen to the church's full range of teach on life issues and social justice.(I realize it is easier said than done). I want to praise people when they get an issue right, and not dismiss them because they might be wrong on other things. There is plenty support in scripture and the fathers for being pro-life, peace-loving, and caring for the poor. Even granting a hierarchy of issues, I feel we must make our attempt to uphold the full range of biblical and church traditions on life issues, poverty, and war and peace. I think an orthodox catholic should be taking hits from the both the left and the right.