www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Saint Theodore

Dear Ungcsertezs,

Buon giorno anche a te. Sto bene, grazie. I'm not familiar with the town you name. Perhaps you mean Amantea. As far as Italo-Greek origins which would go back centuries, probably the best clue nowadays would be surnames. The Byzantine Catholic Church exists in Calabria and Sicily in the centers of the Italo-Albanians. Ciao, Vito

Vito,

Prebachte i mi scusi! That's the correct spelling, Amantea, the coastal town in southern Calabria. I am very Italian-challenged, as only my immigrant grandfather Dominico spoke Italian. His bride,(my grandmother) was born here in Jefferson Co, PA and her parents wanted their childern to speak English. Hey, I'm a menz-a-menz/half na pol Rusyn-Italiano and need to study the Italian language as I hope to travel to southern Calabria someday!

Ciao,

Ungcsertezs

Ung-Certez,

As I understand it, Southern Italians and Sicilians basically are Greeks, more or less!

Logos Teen

Since Amado posted the Novus Ordo Calendar for Saints of the Day, I'll post the Traditional Calendar's Saints of the Day.

St. Andrew Avellini, Priest-Confessor
Ss. Trypho and Respicius, Martyrs
St. Nympha, Virgin
St. Leo I, Pope
Ss. Tryphenna and Tryphosa
St. Demetrius of Antioch, Bishop
St. Anian, Deacon
St. Eustosius, and twenty others
Ss. Tiberius, Modestus, and Florence, Martyrs
St. Probus, Bishop
St. Monitor, Bishop
St. Justus, Bishop
St. Leo of Melun, Confessor
St. Theoctistis, Virgin

Pray for us!

Logos Teen

Dear Teen, Southern Italians are a people of mixed blood. The Italic peoples of that region have been invaded by Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, Longobards, Saracens, Normans, Spaniards, French, Northern Italians, etc. etc. Vito

Vito,

Yes, I know; I was speaking a little tongue-in-cheek.

Certainly, there are some families or groups of people that would be primarily descended from this or that ethnic group.

Though Sicily has been invaded and even ruled by the Normans, genetically speaking they made very, very little effect unless one assumes every Norman male raped every Sicilian woman in sight.

Primarily, Sicilians are descended from Greeks, Phoenician/Carthaginians, Saracen Arabs, and the autocthonous inhabitants of Sicily.

Southern Italy is not my forte so I couldn't speak to that.

Logos Teen

Vito-

Thanks for all your information! Something's always drawn me to the icon of St. Theodore in a parish I visit....

Marc

Dear Ung Certez,

I don't know of any current Italo-Greek parishes in or near Amateo, but hope to consult my maps and lists over the weekend.

I said "current" because many centuries ago mostly everyone in this area was Eastern Rite, as Vito would probably confirm.

The current Eastern Rite parishes are part of the Diocese of Lungro, which in modern times has had an Italo-Greco-Albanian identity, a people who call themselves "Arberesh" and who have descended from those warriors who fled the Turkish domination of the Balkans.

Please do more research on the key words posted above if you like.

I apologize for straying from Theodore.

In Christ,
Andrew

Mi Caro Vito,

Tu ringrazio per gli posti per Santo Teodoro. Ho imperato molto di nuovo. Due anni in Brindisi, non lo saputo della presenza di questo santo la. A dove? Dentro la cattedrale?

Sempre tuo in nostro Cristo,
Andrea

Caro Andrea, Sia lodato Gesu` Cristo!

As I mentioned previously, San Teodoro, is patron (along with St. Barbara) of my parents' hometown of Filadelfia in Calabria. Filadelfia was built after the old town, Castelmonardo was destroyed by earthquake.(1783)

La devozione a San Teodoro proviene dal vecchio paese, Castelmonardo, completamente distrutto dal terremoto del 1783.

La devozione verso il "Grande Martire" diffusasi in Oriente molto rapidamente (cos� come ci testimonia il panegirico che S.Gregorio da Nissa compose in occasione dell'anniversario della sua morte) giunse a Castelmonardo per opera dei monaci basiliani.

Nel vecchio paese esisteva una abbazia intitolata a San Teodoro al punto tale che fino al 1945, i parroci che si sono succeduti nell'attuale parrocchia possedevano il titolo di abate.

The relics of the saint were brought to Brindisi by Venetian seamen in the 13th c. where they are conserved in the cathedral of San Giovanni Battista in a chapel dedicated to San Teodoro. By the way, St. Theodore was replaced by St. Mark as the principal patron of Venice.

Molto grazie per la tue parole in italiano,
Tante belle cose, Vito

Dear Marc,

Thanks for your message. Gagliato, as many towns in the region, may have been founded by Byzantine Greeks.. Keep in mind that when speaking of Greeks in Calabria we have the Ancients and the much later Byzantines. You may know that even today there are a few small towns in the province of Reggio where a Greek dialect is still spoken. Sadly, it may soon be extinct.

Ciao, Vito

Dear Ung Certez,

Probably the closest towns to Amantea that worship in the Byzantine Rite are San Benedetto Ullano and Falconara Albanese (perhaps Falconara is Latin Rite - now I have to consult another list), a ways to the north and up in the mountains.

What is interesting about San Benedetto is her RETURN to the Byzantine Rite and the Diocese of Lungro in the early 1980's. Obviously, there was some kind of reawakening.

This western Calabria is Vito's territory. He may be able to tell us if there is a general reawakening there to Byzantine roots.

I know that the Greek-speaking communities of the toe, outside of Reggio are some getting attention and support from the Patriarch of Constantinople and the European Union (as a linguistic minority).

In Christ,
Andrew

Caro Andrea,

I think that in general Calabria has become more conscious in recent years of its Greek and Byzantine heritage. So much of its past has been destroyed by earthquakes and foreign invasions, but there are constantly new archeological finds that remind of this heritage. The Italo-Albanians make great efforts to preserve their heritage of language, music, religion, etc. The Calabrians, mostly Latin Catholics, seem to be very welcoming and ecumenically minded. Among other efforts, they've supported Orthodox monks from Mt. Athos who have been given the monastery of St. John Theristes in Bivongi. I've often thought that if Catholics and Orthodox were really serious about unity, a model, albeit imperfect, can be found among the Italo-Greek-Albanian Church of the Monastery of Gottaferrata (Rome) and the Eparchies of Lungro (Calabria) and Piana degli Albanesi (Sicily).

Dear Vito,

Yes, yes! This is exactly what the Italo-Greek Dioceses bring to the table:

That upon their (we best call them Epiroti - perhaps identifying themselves by region and language rather than by "ethnicity" - and usualy bilingual in both Albanian and Greek) arrival in the 1400s and 1500s some integrated into existing Greek Rite communities and others founded new communities. But what one doesn't find is any proclamation that by leaving the Patriarch of Ohrid or Constantinople and by coming under the Pope of Rome that they had "changed Churches." The understanding was that they had changed Patriarchs.

My point here, and theirs, being that the schism is not properly dated to 1054, but was a much more gradual slide away from each other in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Documentation that I've seen from 1560s and 1580s, wherein local Latin Rite bishops in Southern Italy argue to Rome against the validity of these "filthy, married Greek Rite priests," were answered by affirming the legitimacy of their Rite and the authority of the Patriarch of Ohrid to send an auxiliary (Greek Rite) Bishop to ordain priests and deacons for the care of the Greek Rite flock.

There are three dogmata, all from the 1850-1870 period that stand in the way of East-West union, but that still doesn't mean that we can't look for valid practical models of "cohabitation" such as those that we find in the Italo-Greek Communities.

In Christ,
Andrew