www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Great article on Husar

"Ivasyk", sometimes we need to heed the Lord' Prayer - "Thy will", not "my will". It's a bit odd you mentioned some very specific things in another thread about the Tridentine Mass, and mention you support SSPX, yet you say you are Greek Catholic. I know quite well the tentions between the Greek Catholics and the RCs in Poland in the times immediately after Wisla. Hmmm.

Fidelity to the visible Church, the Church of the Martyrs, entails supporting Her priests and bishops who are in direct, full, and visible communion with Her - and not sects which do not enjoy canonical approval, or current valid faculties to offer Her Sacraments - and who either clandestinely or openly subvert and oppose that visible hierarchy.

These are schismatic sects - and obviously it is those few individuals spreading seeds of division that want "my will" over the "Thy will" of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church - of which they are in conflict - and of which they refuse to submit in obedience. Obedience is a cornerstone of religious life - and holy St. John Climacus devotes his largest chapter in the Ladder, read in Byzantine monasteries during Great Lent, on this very subject.

We may not always like what happens, and we may need to voice our dissatisfaction - but creating divisions by supporting these sects goes directly against the words of our Lord - "that all may be one".

The Bishops who survived the Gulags - Pavlo Vasylyk, Sterniuk, Velychkovsky, etc. -ALL stayed faithful to communion with the Catholic Church and her visible hierarchy - clearly handed down from Patriarch Josyp to Patriarch Lubomyr through that marvellous thing called Apostolic Succession.

Not one Bishop has left communion to join or support these people. And not one Catholic Bishop currently in full communion with the Successor of St. Peter supports their activity. Let those who have ears, hear.
FDD

Actually, there was one Bishop I beleive whom in his retirment letter wrote in support of the SSPX, but I do not beleive he joined. Sorry I don't have the link for you right now. Father Michael Mary might know what I am talking about though.

Cardinal Hoyos has already written that the SSPX is not in formal Schism and has even said that they are more in communion then a good number of the visible hierarchy. What do you say about the Canadian dioceses, they all wrote a joint declaration saying that they will ignore Church teaching on birth control and abortion or even your own Cardinal Hussar who was Ordained without the Pope's approval (hmm just like +Fellay , +Williamson and the other two SSPX Bishops). If the SSPX is in schism, then easily 60%(or more) of the visible heirarchy are either heretics or in schism by their actions.

Christ says you can judge them by their fruits, well take a look at their fruits. They have no vocation shortage like the rest of the Latin Church, and they have extremely high church attendance, While in the Norvus ordo chapels, they have all the opposites of those things. Little or no poeple answering Vocations, and low Mass attendance.

Dearest Ivasyk

Of course I completely agree with DIAK; as I wrote The sects are bad. But you do not seem to be even slightly tempted to sects, rather your anger is a sign that you love your Catholic faith.

I appears that the SSPX is some help for you. As I have said in an earlier post the SSPX are not considered to be in schism by Cardinal Hoyos nor are we, (for we are treated in the same case in Rome) and I think that we have a lot in common with you.

We have been through the scandals you spoke about.

Your posts in this Forum were not well received on the whole. People were insensitive to your suffering and were not trying to be helpful to you; they only wanted to defend their own perspectives; cryng 'outrage' to your pain. [It is an approach that is seldom found to be helpful.]

What do they really know about your experiences? They hardly gave you a moment to open your mouth before they were calling to the Administrator etc. etc. No I think you have been treated in a shabby fashion and should withdraw before they decide to "excommunicate" you with more rejection and coarse language.

Come back to the Forum some other time.

This forum is supposed to be for all who are interested in the Byzantine rite. I've looked at the member's list. You are a Ukrainian from Ukraine; a lot of these people claim membership in the UGGC but they are several generations already in America. They know a lot of theory and history but not perhaps a lot of suffering. They perhaps love a "cyber-Ukraine" and a "cyber-Rus'" (if I may express it like that) but they don't know your experience as a Ukrainian from today's Ukraine; as their behaviour has shown.

Dear Soul, in this situation it is better for you to keep with the Great Fast and the prayer of St Ephrem.

You do not have to meet me at all; I just wanted to offer you an opening if you wanted it; since precious little encouragment has been given to you from our Byzantine Forum until now.

This next week I'll be on a week's Retreat (silence, no internet or email ) so don't worry if you do try to make contact and there is no reply from me until Great Week.

Pray for me while I'm on Retreat in Bristol, England. Let us all pray for one another.

Da blahoslovit T'ya Hospod +
Fr. Michael Mary, C.SS.R.
Unworthy Vagus for the Love of Christ

If the SSPX is not outside the Catholic Church then why is the Catholic Church engaging with them with the intention of seeking their reunification to Catholicism.

Cardinal Husar was ordained a bishop in secret by the great "Ecclesiarch Joseph". However the bishop did not commence to act as a bishop until matters were regularised with the Holy See. Bishop Fellay has been acting as a Bishop from the very first and has been ordaining etc for his followers just as the Old Catholics did after Vatican I.

ICXC
NIKA

Dearest in Christ Mr McNabb
Yes there are a lot of bishops in favour of the SSPX now. In fact, there is the Old Guard (Card. Lustiger etc) who are enemies of the SSPX but their number is much, much smaller now which has made a clear road for Benedict XVI to lift (pesudo)excommunications and give us back our place in the Church. It will be akin to freedom for St Athanasius to return home from exile.

How will Cardinal Husar accept our end of exile and vagus status? I wonder if he would join his voic to ours in favour of asking the Holy Father to restore to the Russian Catholics of Byzantine Rite their own bishop again? Perhaps he will? The Russian Catholic bishop of Harbin again? It would be a great moment for the Church Tak? Da?

Fr Michael Mary

Let's not count our chickens before they are actually hatched - be it from chocolate eggs or whatever

Cardinal Lubomyr has extended his support to the Russian catholics and the Bielorussians. We dont need Harbin as they all migrated.

ICXC
NIKA

Dearst in Christ Pavel
Is it not strange on a Forum that loves "unity" so much that you seem to need to keep SSPX out of the Church but not the Orthodox. Yet the Orthodox are treated in the Church through the Congregation for Ecumenism with Cardinal Kasper. But the SSPX are considered internal to the Church.... yet you are so anxious to keep them out. There is no logic in this approach. It is even blind to the actual status of the question; yet yours is a definite tendency to want them "out" when the Pope wants the "in".

But with those who are officially "out" (all under the direction of Kasper for dialogue, because of parallel or independent hierarchies, differences in certain points of dogma and morals) you want in? !

Keep the scales of justice steady, no false weights and measures, blindfold back on your eyes and do it properly.

Fr Michael Mary, C.SS.R.

Dear Slave of Our Lady's Love in our own dear Bonnie Scotland
You too should be counting the eggs before they hatch which is the virtue of Holy Hope; hope for what's good; be positive about what would be a blessing for the Church ...... unless, like so many others, you too do not want to see the Church's eggs hatching.
Why be negative
How could this negative approach be the fruit of Our Lady's Love?

I'm not negative - just realistic

and another quote for you

" There's many a slip ......... "

Dearest in Christ Pavel
But we could do with a Byzantine bishop for the Russian Catholics; that would be good wouldn't it?

The Catholic Church has bent over backwards to accommodate those who were attached to the Tredentine rituals. However we are not turning the whole church on it ear for those who left the Church. We all want those who have strayed back but there are standards and they will be upheld.

ICXC
NIKA

Aye Lassie!
But more realistic than the Pope?
Certainly less hopeful.
Yours aye

How so, I don't see a "wide and generous" indult and as said above, the SSPX are not outside the Church.

I did not address you as 'Sonny Jim' or 'Boy' so there is not need to address a lady you dont know in such a familiar way.

Lets start again shall we and keep this on track.

ICXC
NIKA