www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Muslim Sermons

Peace cannot come by ignoring fact. The sermons that were quoted to start this thread are not atypical. They aren't even ancient. They are quite typical. I understand much of the reasons and the intellectual underpinnings of such sermons.

One finds peace when one confronts everything and then humbly works with others to find common ground. The Catechism and the Pope are correct when they say that the three religions have a common ground in Abraham. We have much more than that. Some of the posters here are incorrect in their assumption that if only we looked at the teachings of each religion we would find harmony. It just isn't so.

Dan L

Henry,

"Ad hominen is a logical fallacy. The charge is valid, when you say "I know a Muslim who said Muslims have no character." And use this to say their teachings are wrong. That follows the definition of ad hominem."

As you well know, I never said such a thing and didn't even imply it. Nor did the speaker I quoted. Telling lies is a sin. Just thought you should know.

Dan L

Dear Alice- I did read your post, and I saw no acknowledgement of the fact that Christian Greeks slaughtered innocent Muslims in the year preceeding the Chios atrocities. The number I read is 20,000 men, women and children. On Chios the same source said 25,000 innocent victims, with another 30,000 sold into slavery.
Please understand I am only trying to offer a balanced account, one which does not excuse either side. I note with regret that in your last post you again sidestepped accountability: "war is ugly, what do you expect after that kind of oppression, we weren't very polite, there were incidents", etc [I paraphrase]. In truth no people has been free of committing atrocities in wartime, it is unfortunately an all too human response to perceived enemies. I am saying that those who profess the Gospel have less excuse for this sort of hate than those who have never heard. I know your people have suffered, I surely intent no offense or disrespect. I do ask that you acknowledge that others have suffered at the hands of your people, at the hands of every people.
My so-called "defense" of Islam has nothing to do with political correctness; I find a lot to criticize about Islam and am somewhat amazed to find myself consistently speaking against anti-Islamic bigotry here. It does have a lot to do with fairness and trying to think with the Church.
-peace, Daniel

Daniel

Thank you for your kind words to me. I find, reading your last post, that we are in agreement -- people might confuse my defense of Islam as somehow saying I agree with Islam. Of course I am a Christian, and find what I am doing is exactly what the Holy Father has asked for us to do -- to reflect, with love, and admission that many of our prejudices are just that -- prejudices, and both sides follow the same kind of rhetoric to denigrate the other side. Does this mean I find them faultless? Of course not. But I find that it is better to rest on issues than it does to go around attacking others for the very things we do ourselves.

Many complain in here that Muslims actually believe their religion, and dare to want it to be the universal faith. Yet, that is also what Christians who believe their faith want for the Gospel, to spread it to all. That both believe their faith and think it is worth propigating, should also show the kind of people we are talking about -- if it was out of malice, and hate for anyone who was not of the faith, would they not just go and say "go ahead and rot, I care not?"

Should we really "condemn" the people who wrote these Sermons?

At least, in spite of their false religion, these Muslims have enough courage to dennounce the godless establishment imposed throughout the Western world: the liberal education, the pornocracy of the medias, the dishonour of our women, institutionalized abortion, etc.

Haven't you thought that the rancor that Muslims and not Muslims throughout the world have shown toward the United States recently, is motivated by a reason?

To me, a Western Christian, it's evident that the "democratic" establishment heads and supports evil causes, destroys the independence and self determination of our nations, undermines our traditional values and attacks the Christian faith by perverting it and confusing the people.

I truly believe that this is the last stage of the revolution and we are passive about it. Luther's revolt, the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution, modern capitalism, are one and the same: now the "invisible hand" of the New World Order is soon to become a reign of terror, economical slavery and misery.

There's the strong need of a militant Apostolic Christianity, a legionary heart and attitude against injustice and imperialism, devotion to recover the land of our ancesters just as the Serbs have fought. Let us fight so that the cross returns to Constantinopoulis and the Eternal Rome recovers its dignity and splendour.

The truth shall make us free!

I agree with most of what you say. Let's take back Constantinople. Let's have a vibrant Christianity. But why do these Muslims want to exterminate the Jews? I believe that their attitude concerning Dhimmi and the Nazi and Stalinist influences that have been so strong there continue to enflame passions.

Dan L

Dan L,

a few posts back in this thread, I posted:

Apparently you either did not read my post or chose to ignore it. I'm willing to assume you did not read it. So, in directing this post to you specifically, I ask you to refrain from name-calling. If you cannot respond without name-calling, then don't respond at all.

I'll do both. Note the date on the post.

Dan L

What I dont understand is that the Muslims revere the chosen of the OT and yet want to destroy them at the same time. The Palestinians were given land in 1948 and again in 1998 but were not satisfied. Unfortunately, the Palestinian Muslims want to eradicate all signs of Israeli life in any form in the middle east. How sad.

JoeS

Joe,

From their sermons it would seem they some would not be happy until all Jews everwhere were destroyed. That's not Qur'anic necessarily but it is in fact what they say they want to do. I think they'd like to get the Christians out of Palestine as well. It may be true that the majority of Palestinians would be happy to seek a peacable solution but it hard to understand why they don't.

Dan L

I wonder about another thing. If there is no relationship between the teachings of Islam and the actions of butchering Islamic governments, why do Islamic governments, e.g., Sudan, insist that a person must become a Muslim in order to get work and in many cases must become Muslim or die? Is it just a coincidence? Do we give pagan Rome the same pass for its persecution of Christians in the first three centuries? If anyone does it's the first I've heard about it. Pagan Rome was no more brutal than many Islamic nations are today and they certainly never killed as many Christians. Pagan Rome even had some noble ideals. Why do some give Muslims today a pass and Roman pagans a curse?

Dan L