www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Question about Icons

I know of a fellow in greece who can get real painted icons for cheap. I can send him a picture of any icon i want and he can have it done for me. Well, all the icons from him are signed by the iconographer. Is this an inhibition to having them blessed or used for devotional purposes?

Jason

Dear Jason,

The simple answer is "No".

However .... I remember reading a Russian news article once which stated in part "To achieve success in iconography, an artist must die to his artistic talents." This is done in part by not signing your work. Though some iconographers do sign the back of an icon with the words - "By the hand of so-and-so", I've never seen an icon with a signature on the front. The ancient icons are not signed.

It is "tradition" for iconographers not to sign their work. The reason being that they are not worthy to share the space and/or their signature spoils the sacredness of an icon. It is said to be somewhat of a question of pride vs humility. I've also heard it said that if your work is good enough, it will be recognised and a signature is unnecessary. Painting icons should be for the glory of God not for personal achievement.

Hi Jason

Please be VERY, VERY CAREFUL when dealing with these kinds of "iconographers".

A friend of mine bought me a "hand-painted" icon from one of these artists while in Greece. She gave it to me as a gift a few years ago.

It is hand-painted.... well, at least the woodstain and some of the gold is hand-painted. It was a VERY GOOD print mounted on wood and then sanded and varnished to look like it was handpainted.

An authentic hand-written icon from Greece would cost several hundred dollars for a small one and does take months to get, sometimes longer.

As your contact to get you a certificate of authenticity from the artist.

Hope this helps....

mark

Mark,

Thanks for the heads up. I have ordered from this gentleman before and have been well pleased. Last I ordered was a sterling silver Icon of St Michael with a handpainted face. It came with a certificate of authenticity and a hallmark on the icon.

The icon i have on order now is one he does not carry. I sent him a photo of what i want and he is having it made for me. I should be able to tell if they use a print rather than paint since the picture i sent was not high resolution. Oh the Icon is the Inexhaustable Cup.

Jason

Hi,

How does an iconographer create a certificate of authenticity?

What are the requirements to create one?

Thanks.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine
Future Iconographer

I have seen icons from Greece that are silk screened. They look just like painted icons.

Dave

Hi SPDundas

I've seen a few icons done by professionals in Greece and they have a notarized document that identifies the subject on the icon, the date it was written and by whom.

I have a couple for icons that I purchased from Russia and Lithuania. The icon from Lithuania has a special seal on the back of the icon from the Ministry of Culture as to the age of the icon and that it is authentic and not forged.

The same is for the Russian icon. If you purchase an icon in Russia and it is an antique, YOU MUST HAVE THIS DOCUMENT to even try to get it out of the country.

Hope this helps.....

mark

It would be pretty easy to come up with an official looking document; after all if one is going to pass off a print as hand-painted wouldn't he also be willing to forge a certificate? Look at your icon with a high powered magnifying glass, that should reveal a print, however high resolution.
I personally consider the "by the hand of.." thing on the back to be a sneaky signature, disguised as humility. If you are truly an instrument of the Holy Spirit why this compulsion to mark it with your name? Just disappear, oh iconographer.

Happy New Year, iconophile.

I could use some help on this:

I have an icon with a family history. It was above my grandmother's crib when she was an infant. The Greek island she lived in had a catastrophic earthquake. Everyone ran out leaving the baby in the crib. As soon as the babies grandmother realized it, she ran in and grabbed the infant before the wall caved in. I inherited this very old icon, which had been passed down from generation to generation.

Now before my grandmother came to this country, she had the icon repainted at a local monastery because of it's condition, so I have no idea what is underneath. I have to presume that the Italianate 1920's copy is the same as the original. I don't even know if the original is Byzantine or Italian. Considering my family names, it could be either.

On the left side, Christ is seated with his right hand on his lap, and his left hand raised in the air with his index finger pointing up.

In the center is a stone well, with a clay urn on top. A good Samaritan women has her right hand on the top of the urn, and her left hand slightly raised.

In the background are three men walking down a hill. Christ is wearing a purple outfit covered with a blue robe. The Samaritan is dressed in blue, with a colorful turban on her head.

I do hope someone can tell me something about this icon.

Zenovia

I have no idea, but sounds wonderfuly awesome to gaze upon. Thanks for sharing its history and adventure with us.

Zenovia,

The icon you describe is that of Christ and St. Photini, that Samaritan woman, at Jacob's Well. Do you have anyone named Photini in your ancestry? Perhaps that might help you date the icon somewhat. In the meantime, consider the back of the icon. If it is smooth wood, it is probably not of very great age, but if it was designed with a sort of groove to it, it may be older, and worth a trip to someone who knows more about icon restoration than I do. Often, the newer layers can be removed completely, leaving the original icon intact underneath. This is something that a professional should do, of course, or a highly skilled hobbiest.

Gaudior, who has likely not told you anything that you do not know already.

Some information about St. Photini, courtesy of Come and See Icons:

http://www.comeandseeicons.com/cap21.htm

Gaudior, continuing to supply known information

Dear Gaudior,

Actually, I don't have anyone named Saint Photini in my background. My grandmother was given the icon because it was above her crib. That corner of the house survived until someone grabbed the baby. It then fell down.

The icon was known to be something special, and undoubtably handed down for generations. Mind you, the earthquake occurred in 1882.

It does have grooves in the back, and looks quite old. It's a pity that I don't know from what part of the family it comes from....but I am going to assume it was from her mothers, since that side was the most affluent... and related mind you to the former Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Because the family names could be Italian, I am curious to know if the style and position of Jesus and Saint Photini is Byzantine. The parish, (and it's the one mentioned on the BBC with the dangerous fireworks at Eastertime), was originally a Latin Church before becoming Orthodox.

I do hope someday I could have someone look at it and see if the original could be restored.

Zenovia

I'd call someone at the Met and ask if they would be willing to take a look at it. It is just possible that once they see it, they can identify an age on it, and suggest what can be done to restore it to its former glory. It may be that if no one in the family was ever named Photini, the icon was written as a memento of a pilgrimage to Jacob's Well. "Oh, the possibilities!" as the commercial would say. It is an unusual subject, I have seen similar icons of that subject, and they are as you describe, except for the background figures. Was the monastery on Chios? If so, did they perhaps keep records of personally commissioned re-writes of icons? Just a possible avenue of exploration.

Gaudior, who has only ever read of the process of restoring icons, and would NEVER think to advise a "do-it-yourself" restoration.