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Dear Admin--

Perhaps Coalesco will clarify his remarks as I could have taken his comment the wrong way.

If he meant children should participate more fully in the liturgy, i would say AMEN

If, however, his intent was to suggest special interest-liturgies a la the Latins, then I would respectfully submit that that is not part of our Eastern tradition.

I suppose what you describe above could be good as a pedantic tool but it seems to separate the children from the adults as distinct "classes" of worshippers. Now of course scientifically that is true but spiritually can we make such distinctions?

Yours in Christ,

anastasios

Anastasios,

I did not read Coalesco�s post as if it were suggesting that we imitate the Latin Church�s idea of �Theme Liturgy�. I read Coasleso�s post more along the lines that we adults should become as children in our acceptance of the liturgy.

I agree that some examples of the �Theme Liturgy� in the Latin Church are horrendous. But there are also plenty examples of where it is done quite well and would be a parallel of what I described in my earlier post.

I do not think the type of children�s liturgy I described is pedantic at all. Focusing on children is certainly not trivial. Such an occasional liturgical emphasis allows children to be adults for a day and it can plant seeds. It does not create a different class of worshippers (just as signaling out mothers on Mother�s Day, fathers on Father�s Day or veterans on Veteran�s Day).

Admin

There are a lot of people in the Latin Church who don't like the extremes that the "special Masses (Liturgies)" go to, but keep in mind that many of the examples cited have either not received official approval, or have been "performed" in a very different way than originally attended.

(Not meaning to drag the Latin Church into the discussion, just that someone else brought it up first. )

Hi Anastasios, I'd be delighted,
As I had said, I believe we are saved in community and we are like one big family.

I like having children at liturgy, I would not advocate separating them from us for any reason.

Of course, if they were all gathered at some sort of Rusin/Ukrainian summer camp I guess there would be no question that they would have a liturgy all to themselves and that would not be a bad thing.

Children drop things, it happens from pews and it happens without pews. It will continue to happen whether the family is making full prostrations or stuck in kneelers. Some are too young to focus their attention on the full liturgy but that phase doesn't last long, and it has nothing to do with freedom of movement for the congregation.

Children need to be drawn into this community worship in ways that will pique their interest and experience joy in God's house. We have that precious age that is very formative and if the earliest experience of church is all stern and stiff and negative it will be hard to overcome that later.

Some people don't like hospitals and some don't like church. Usually that attitude can be traced to a time before they had any concept of theology.

I had wished that my suggestion would stimulate some thinking of the part children play in our community worship. They are on a different part of their spiritual journey than we are. They may be closer to God than many of us adults could ever hope to be again.

I never intended to advocate separate liturgies for children or select groups that exclude everyone else and I would not approve of excluding children from the regular congregational worship and I was surprised that my comments were taken that way. Although I now see that I could have been more specific and I apologize for the confusion.

Michael

Dear Admin and Coalesco--

I agree with you both after your fine explanations. Thank you!

anastasios

"The sky is blue; and kids make noise. That's the way God made it."

Blessings!!

Themes - We had a preist that before his homily on the Exaltaion of the Cross, I believe that is when it was, passed around small bags. In the bags were nails! Everyone took one, I still have mine. It left an impression that nail in hand as he spoke of Christ with nails in His.

Rose

My kids do just fine in the liturgy and they like it because I explane it to them every chance that I get. It has been easy for me to explane the following Sunday on that Saturday nights prayers and tell them to look for the Kondaks and Tropars that are for that day. I know that alot of people dont like that kids make noise in church but that is one of the things that makes it so wonderful. I guess that we could do what the local Latin churches do and we could just put the families behind glass.

There are of course many things that attracted me to the Byzantine Church, but one of the things that made my first Great Lent and Pascha really stand out was the part that all the kids, regardless of age, played in my parish. I watched amazed as toddlers were allowed to get up and explore when they got bored, babies were babbling and no one sought to quiet them, and teens sang out in prayer(I thought I would never get all those tones down they way they did). The children were such an important part of the parish that I knew that I had found a home I could be happy in. Later I asked someone if the kids ran the parish! There is such a strong family feeling there, that I knew if I am ever forced to move on to another parish, I will be very lost if that same acceptance of the young ones doesn't exist.

Well said...can I borrow that for a tee-shirt!

Ladyhawke wrote:

Ditto!

Slava Isusu Christu!
Glenn

Is anyone afraid-besides me- that this new music being made for our church will drive people away therefore driving our church closer to extinction?
I know that I wouldn't be one to leave the church because that would only make it worse but I don't think I am ready to embrace this new music.I do however think that some older people who are sooooo used to the curent music would leave. Is anyone else afraid of this happening?

-Katie g

That is the way St. Georges is. You can be assured that your children will be somewhere in someones arms when it is time for Communion. They may start the Divine Liturgy in the front of the Church, but they will end up, well that is anyones guess. But, you have the comfort and trust that they are being loved and cared for by the family gathered in the Church.

Of course our youngest is 18 now, so I don't think anyone is keeping after him anymore. He is usually found serving at the alter. That is how our,not just mine but everyones, children give back to the Church the love they were shown growning up. To serve the body that nurtured them.

I am typing without glasses hope you can read this. That is also one of the signs that your kids are getting older, you can't see anymore.

Katie,

I'm still so new I don't know much about the tunes. However, I have noticed that some of the newer tunes seem like almost unsingable dirges. I just shrug my shoulders and do my best to learn them, though I do prefer the singability of the tunes we sang up to six months ago.

Dan Lauffer

Please give the new music a chance. Wait until it's promulgated and in use.

It's my understanding that the new music will be more faithful to our Ruthenian tradition than what we have now, which, musically doesn't always make sense. At times, the most dramatic and emphasized note in the music will occur on a thoroughly unimportant word like "the" or "in."

Any change will be difficult because we are used to what we sing now. But give it time, and we will get used to the new, more-faithful-to-the-old stuff.