www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Bahai Faith

How does a Byzantine Catholic defend his faith against the errors of the Bahai's. Are there any sites that deal with this from an apologetical perspective?

Thx.

I was under the impression that ORIGINALLY the Bahai faith was regarded as a horribly heretical outgrowth from Islam (Or have I lost it again?? ) .

I suspect you'd find more Christianity "vs." Islam materials than Christianity "vs." Bahai materials. Might be a good place to start...

Dunno if this helps at all - good luck!

Sharon

Dear Robert,

Unless they come after you first, I would leave them alone.

The Bahai faith is a syncretistic one and one that therefore appeals to contemporary sensibilities that prefers NOT to make any affirmations that one faith is better or more true than another.

It is really part of the greater mainstream agnostic view in this regard.

Alex

I always thought that they were pretty harmless. There are supposed to be quite a few around Chicago but they do not seem to be very aggressive. I was attracted to their ideas once long ago but I never actually met one.

Yes, they are a derivative of Islam, originally from Persia and later based in Israel. They are pretty syncretistic and don't really carry much of Islam forward in their teachings as far as I could tell. I cannot think of any Christian positions that they would care about excepting maybe the beatitudes!

Just my opinion here, I would guess that a person should be somewhat familiar with Islam and then learn something about the teachings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah before undertaking a dialog. It shouldn't take long to figure it out.

I think one has to care a lot about the Christ of the Gospels and build on that using some sort of logical sequence to wean away from a shallow "feel good" religious philosophy.

I think their ideas might be attractive to the new age types looking for something more substantial in tradition and (apparent) authority without being too complicated or demanding.

I realize this doesn't help much. Spin an old Seals and Crofts record, have a cup of coffee and ignore them if possible.

Michael

Dear Michael,

I once made a Bahai smile when I told him, "Ba-Bye!"

Alex

So Bahai's are basically Islam's answer to Unitarians?

Robert

I think so, the thought crossed my mind when I posted earlier.

When groups pale down Jesus Christ to just a very wise man, teacher or Prophet, perhaps equivalent to the Bab, or Buddha, how do they understand the sacraments, hierarchical priesthood and communion of Saints? If all religions are equally of value perhaps none have any value at all? Dr. Alex's comment about agnosticism makes sense here.

They really have to take Jesus Christ of the Gospels seriously, understand that he IS God and work their way up to understanding the sacraments He instituted and the Church He founded.

The question then is, how do you dialog with such a person to get them to take your position seriously? I don't have that kind of experience.

All I can say is, for some types of people they will only be impressed by good example. When they see Catholics and Orthodox performing acts of charity and making sacrifices for others perhaps their heart will open to the Holy Spirit. I doubt that intellectual arguments will work until the heart opens up.

Michael

The last posting forces the Orthodox to question how they can be represented in inter-faith circles which are not simply interdenominational, but actually interfaith, assaulting and diluting orthodox Christology to make it palatable to non-Christians.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Additionally, if my memory is correct, the Bahai's began in Iran in the 19th century, and have been ruthlessly persecuted by the Islamic majority (Well, who hasn't been, I suppose.) ever since. Their original leader (Was it the Bab, then later Baha Ullah, or the other way around?) may have been assassinated in what is now Israel, I believe. They see themselves as a fulfillment of some or all the world's religions, which is why their calendar has commemorative dates from different faiths. Considering their johnny-come-lately status, I would venture to say that justification needs to come from their side more often than ours. They appear to have non-christian status, not unlike the Mormons, who also deny the reality of the Resurrection. So, a marriage, for example, could not take place between a Bahai and an Eastern Christian over the matter of lack of belief in the Trinity. Same with Mormons or Unitarians-Universalists, for that matter. All are non-trinitarian.

Dear Friends,

The same difficulty of relating to people of another faith involves the Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is no use arguing the Bible with them - their bible is not the Bible.

But a neighbour's wife was a Bahai who often witnessed to her faith.

If a friend wants to share their faith, then we should listen calmly and let them state their peace.

And then, having done so, we should state our faith in Christ to them, expecting them to behave in the same way as we have behaved toward them, calmly and with respect toward them and their beliefs.

Such points of contact should never be philosophical arguments where one tries to convince the other - I think we should walk away from such pointless encounters.

When a person speaks to you calmly about Christ and His Church and respects you for who you are and what you believe at the moment - isn't that the first step of an encounter where the Holy Spirit (and not our own prideful "brilliance") can begin to do His Work?

Alex

Now we live in the era of neo-pagan modernism, now we see people attracted to Hinduism, Buddhism, the "Celtic-Gods-mania" fashion, and now the Bahai, more "Ecumenical".

But in my opinion the Bahai is just a small exotic group which is totally harmless, I don't know it it's now a "fashion" in the USA, but if that is the case, it will pass.

Now my question qould, be, why would people be alarmed about the Bahai or the Druids, after all they never deny what they are or cheat people. But few people say a word about the Baptists, JW's, Mormons, Pentecostals, and Evangelical sects whose spiritual poison is much more dangerous than in any of the new religious groups, and the worst thing is that they go to people's homes calling themselves "Christian". Moreover, most of their sectarian preachers have a space in TV or the radio, and important places in the governments of many nations.

I srongly applaud Alex's perspective. Despite their root in Islam, their perspective seems to be one of trying to find God in whatever knowledge or traditions that they can. And they seem like a very peace-loving and tolerant community. ("Religion and Ethics Newsweekly" on PBS had a snippet on them a few weeks back.)

I would consider them in the same way that I would consider a "pre-catechumen", i.e., a person of good will, who is open to learning. Snoopy's point about 'Christian' infighting as a dis-incentive I think is extremelly important. There are many people of good will who are unfortunately accosted by doctrinaire missionaries. When confronted with the "the Bible is literally true", or "if it isn't in Greek/Slavonic, God won't hear you", or "you must make the sign of the cross THIS way", then they flee.

With the Bahai folks, I would just affirm the basic principle of the Gospel: "God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God and God in them." Let them come to respect us and our faith because of Our Master and Teacher. (I.e., Christ through us.)

Christ is Risen!!

Apropos the Monk Mark's comments, I am recalled of a priest who was asked by his bishop about building up a parish. The priest responded, I am in the rectory every day and every evening and I leave the porch light on to let people know that I am there so that they can come.

And, of course, no one ever did.

We need to be out there, among all nations. And in doing so, we must be other Christs, healing the sick, feeding the hungry, striving for peace, and making sure that when we do this they see Christ in His baptized servants.

Christ is Risen!!

Dear Alex,

Christ is Risen!

You say:

"Such points of contact should never be
philosophical arguments where one tries to convince the other - I think we should walk away from such pointless encounters.

When a person speaks to you calmly about Christ and His Church and respects you for who you are and what you believe at the moment - isn't that the first step of an encounter where the Holy Spirit (and not our own prideful "brilliance") can begin to do His Work?"
**************************************************
You have spoken very wisely here, dear brother in Christ. If only this God inspired advise could be taken and heeded by Christians of different denominations as well!

In Christ,
Alice

I live near a moderately large community of Bahai members and have gotten to know a few through a coworker. They are harmless enough, into peace, love and everything's all right. I've never heard much in the way of evangelism from them so far.

We are posting here using a 'we/them type conversation, but interestingly enough more than half of this particular group were raised Catholic. Any thoughts?