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#18768 01/06/05 11:46 PM
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Patriarch of Terror

By Joseph D'Hippolito
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 4, 2005

"Michel Sabbah, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, has praised jihad,
justified suicide bombing, and led marches at the behest of the late Yasser
Arafat - leading some to question whose bidding the patriarch is doing....."

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16525

#18769 01/07/05 01:21 AM
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I'm not the first to ask this question but it needs to be asked: "Since every Latin Bishop and Archbishop and Latin Patriarch owes his position to our present Pope, what the heck are we supposed to believe about his effectiveness?"

Dan L

#18770 01/09/05 10:43 PM
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In 2003, Pope John Paul II delivered a subtle vote of no confidence in Sabbah's pastoral stewardship by appointing Jean-Baptiste Courion � a convert from Judaism � as auxiliary bishop responsible for Hebrew-speaking Catholics. But as the worldwide clerical sex-abuse crisis demonstrates, this pope feels reluctant to discipline malfeasant bishops more forcefully.
This pretty much sums up the Pope's actions, or lack thereof.

Logos Teen

#18771 01/09/05 10:50 PM
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Joseph D'Hippolito has been around Catholic internet circles for a long time, and has, among other things, recommended dropping nuclear bombs on Mecca.

Take his writing with a very large grain of salt.

#18772 01/09/05 11:09 PM
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PA, you beat me to it. D'Hippolito's stuff is typically inaccurate at best, and he makes his living usually taking people's words out of context, cutting and pasting them to fit his polemic.

The treatment of the Arab Christians, whether they be Roman, Melkite, Antiochian, Syriac or otherwise by the Israelis has been itself marked with countless overt episodes of wanton aggression and the Christians often endure daily harrassment in some places.

And Many Years to the Holy Father who has given us Orientale Lumen and Slavorum Apostoli.

#18773 01/09/05 11:45 PM
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"Since 1999, Sabbah has been president of Pax Christi International, a Roman Catholic organization that advocates radical pacifism. Though Sabbah's views might seem to disqualify him from leading such an organization, they fit Pax Christi's underlying philosophy of excusing Palestinian murder."

And to think that some of our Eastern Catholic bishops are members of that organization.

Is Pax Christi competing with Opus Dei for dominance in the Church? Just wondering.

#18774 01/10/05 02:50 AM
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I find the description of a Patriarch of the Church as the "Patriarch of Terror" to be uncharitable. I wonder why there was no warning from our ever vigilant moderator?

#18775 01/10/05 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by Jennifer:
I find the description of a Patriarch of the Church as the "Patriarch of Terror" to be uncharitable. I wonder why there was no warning from our ever vigilant moderator?
�Patriarch of Terror� is the title of the thread because it was the title of an article in a magazine. There is nothing wrong with discussing articles in magazines. There is also nothing wrong with charitable discussions about failures of individual Christians in public life.

I cannot enforce a rule of charity throughout the world. I can only enforce it here, and then only to the extent where I see it violated and where my own lapses in charity do not cause me to lack judgment.

#18776 01/10/05 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Diak:
D'Hippolito's stuff is typically inaccurate at best, and he makes his living usually taking people's words out of context, cutting and pasting them to fit his polemic.

The treatment of the Arab Christians, whether they be Roman, Melkite, Antiochian, Syriac or otherwise by the Israelis has been itself marked with countless overt episodes of wanton aggression and the Christians often endure daily harrassment in some places.
Randy,

While I don't disagree with any of what you've said, His Beatitude Patriarch Michel has a long-standing reputation for being less than circumspect in his public statements, including those labeled as pastoral. He consistently has come across as an apologist for terrorist acts by various groups. I'm thankful that he doesn't belong to my Church, as are many others.

In my opinion, the man is a liability to the Church's image in Jerusalem. I also don't believe that any good purpose was served by the appointment of an auxiliary for Hebrew-speaking Catholics in the jurisdiction. It has given the Latin Church there an even more politicized aura than it already had.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#18777 01/10/05 01:42 PM
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I completely agree, Neil. Unfortunately the negativity and allegations surrounding Sabbah sometimes obscure the actual condition of Christians within occupied territory in general.

#18778 01/10/05 01:45 PM
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Neil said: I'm thankful that he doesn't belong to my Church, as are many others.
Well, he is a member of the Catholic Church, as are you.

Sometimes I think people get so bogged down in sui iuris Churches that they forget we are all Catholic and share the same One True Faith.

Unfortunately, everyone in the Catholic Communion is connected to His Beatitude.

Logos Teen

#18779 01/10/05 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
I'm thankful that he doesn't belong to my Church, as are many others.
Quote
Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
Well, he is a member of the Catholic Church, as are you.

Sometimes I think people get so bogged down in sui iuris Churches that they forget we are all Catholic and share the same One True Faith.

Unfortunately, everyone in the Catholic Communion is connected to His Beatitude.
Garrett,

I stand by what I said; he and I are both Catholics, but he is not a member of my sui iuris Church, which manages to serve its own Palestinian faithful in Israel and the diaspora without this type of posturing. (Not that we have never done so; the antics of one of our own bishops put us in the spotlight some years back.) Given the geographic locale and the ethnicities involved, it could as well be us; that is isn't makes me very grateful. His Beatitude's faith has nothing to do with the issues in question and using it as an excuse for same would be a shameful act.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#18780 01/10/05 03:36 PM
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Dear Teen Logo,

While what you say is true, the fact is that there is a sense in which what goes on in the Latin Church has nothing whatever to do with Eastern Catholics.

And this is because we are all in Particular Churches in communion with one another.

A lot of the modernist stuff the Latin Church in North America experienced in the seventies, for example, did not impact my UGCC or other EC churches (thankfully).

The troubles you had over a number of liturgical and other issues had no impact on the Eastern Catholic Churches as well (again thankfully).

And we do not have the same kind of trouble with abusive priests as the Latin Church does (again see above).

So while we're all Catholics, we don't all cross ourselves the same way!

And our hierarchies have nothing whatever to say about the Patriarch being discussed here.

Rome, the Patriarchate of the West, most certainly does.

Alex

#18781 01/10/05 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:


While what you say is true, the fact is that there is a sense in which what goes on in the Latin Church has nothing whatever to do with Eastern Catholics.

Isn't the use of the phrase "nothing whatever" a bit overreaching? I see your point, however, Christians (let alone Catholics in communion with each other) always have something to do with each other.

Further, is there proof that the Eastern Catholic Churches haven't had the same problems with sexual abuse as the latin Church?

#18782 01/10/05 05:51 PM
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