www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Article: "Sparks Fly Between East and West"

Dear friends,

In the most recent issue of National Catholic Register, there is a front page article entitled "Sparks Fly Between Eastern and West." It is accompanied by a picture of Melkite Patriarch Gregory III.

The article purports to cover the recent Orientale Lumen conference in Washington, D.C. Indeed, the text of the article itself sounds credible enough, and presents Eastern Catholic grievances with objectivity and accuracy. The author obviously did a great deal of research, and got the historical facts straight. However, the title of the article itself unfavorably colors the reporting of the event. Indeed, it is hard to read the article objectively after the title sets up expectations of conflict. I wonder if the author chose the title, or if it was chosen by one of the paper's editors?

I can see how a conservative Roman Catholic, after seeing the title and reading the article in that light, could possibly get the impression that there is some sort of unruly conflict between Eastern Catholics and Rome.

Has anyone else seen this article, and would like to comment on its accuracy? This article has not yet been posted on the newspaper's home page, so you have to find it in print. By the way, National Catholic Register should not be confused with the more liberal National Catholic Reporter. They are very, very different publications.

Anthony

At least they didn't hint at a possible "showdown."

Friend,

The issue of titles is indeed important. Recently there was a flurry of topics regarding the "new liturgy." Some of those topics seem to have been removed or I am just too dumb to find them now. Anyway, the title of one was something like "Proposed text of Byzantine Liturgy" if this is incorrrect please forgive me and then post a correction. After reading the topic title it was impossible for me to objectivly read any posts. The issue at hand in that matter was the 'translation' and 'rendering' and rubrics. But the topic title made it seem like there were guys in some rooms editing a new liturgy like editing a news article. "Ok boys we need to cut 3 lines out of this!" I don't think that is how it works. But that is the impression the topic title gave me. Perhaps that was a very personal reaction, if so, please forgive me for posting here regarding this.

Allow me to say however, that perhaps the author of that article you mention (which I have not seen and do not plan to see) wanted that as a first impression? Maybe he wants his readers to go in with a bias? Just a hunch.

Bob

Them conservative Latins messin' with us again...they can't even title an article without stirring up some controversy.

Generally, writers do not write their own heads. However, it would certainly be legitimate to call the publisher to task for the bias.

Perhaps the Register should hire a regular Eastern Christian columnist like Commonweal has.

Axios

[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: Axios ]

[
Perhaps the Register should hire a regular Eastern Christian columnist like Commonweal has.

Axios

[


Yes indeed! The truly great Father John Garvey of the OCA Albanian DIocese

I thought the article was very good. The title, I'm sure, was an editor's choice.

Some really good points were made in the article. Ukrainian Orthodox Bishop Vsevolod is quoted as saying:


Alex, this would be a great introduction on the subject with the Holy Father "Holy Father, the latest edition of _National Catholic Register_ quotes Bishop Vsevolod as saying....

Dear Friend,

I think the very idea of married priests having sex would be too much for the Holy Father's rather fragile health right now!

I wouldn't want to shock him to the point that the only thing he remembers of World Youth Day is that funny individual with the glasses and the married priest issue . . .

Alex

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

We must remember that our traditional Roman Catholic brothers and sisters see the entire faith more or less as "the world against the Pope." In their eyes we are either with the Pope or against him. They are very sensitive to any disagreement with Rome as just another manifestation of Protestant or liberal defiance.

God bless the writer of that article if he protrayed the current situation between East and West in the Catholic Church with accuracy (please let me know if its made available on the web).

It is for us Eastern Catholics to show our Roman Catholic brothers that our's is a very different situation than that of the liberals who deny the Apostolic faith in favor of a watered down pseudo religion. Our's is a call to further reform the Catholic Church in harmony with the Tradition that was passed on from the Fathers.

Thanks be to God that Rome, itself, is open to looking at this with a renewed openess.

Just my impression of the topic.

In Christ's Light

Wm. Der-Ghazarian

Thanks for the Armenian perspective on this issue...I have heard that the Armenian Catholics were pretty heavily latinized but its great to hear your fervor to be true to the tradition. On a tangent, the relationship between John Paul II and Karekin I should be an inspiration to all Christians for ecumenical dialogue.

Diak,

Thanks for your reply. Traditionaly (from the fifteenth century) there were two sets of Armenians in communion with the Bishop of Rome. One group was totally latinized even having the liturgy in Latin. The other group, which is the Armenian group I belong to, are hardly latinized at all. We still maintain our "Soorp Badarak" (Holy Sacrifice) in its integrity and cling to the teachings of our Armenian Fathers.

I agree with you, the late Karekin I and Pope John Paul II were models for the new ecumenism. If we follow their example we will certainly one day be united while retaining our profound diversity.

Greetings.

I am not aware of another AC Church aside from that of the Catholicos Nerses Bedros, the chair of whom is based in Beirut.

Is there another Church? Presumably based in Armenia?

Which Church do you hail from friend?

Quote

We still maintain our "Soorp Badarak" (Holy Sacrifice) in its integrity and cling to the teachings of our Armenian Fathers.

I am very happy to know there is some Armenian purity still.

I am aware however, that the Apostolic Armenian Church imbibed some liturgical latinisms due to the strong ties between Armenians and the Crusaders (Cilicia and also Armenian blood on the throne of Jerusalem). I believe the mitre is an example.

In IC XC
Samer

[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: SamB ]

Dear Samer,

FYI, I received your letter which I'll be giving to you know who on Friday.

I didn't get a chance to see "you know who" yesterday owing to my responsibilities near the papal stage.

Alex

SamB,

Thanks for your question. There was a group called the "unitors" who were Armenian Dominicans. The results of their work among the Armenians had the terrible effect of total latinization of some Armenians. I can't give you statistics because I don't think there are any. I don't think its correct to speak of them as a seperate "Church" (notice I used the word "group"). I only know that they have existed since around the fourteenth century and pockets of them still exist to this day.

I have a friend in Romania who knows of such a parish. He is studying for the priesthood and tells me the Latin bishop they are under forbids them to celebrate the Divine Liturgy in Armenian. So much for ecumenical sensitivity.

I also know they exist because my Armenian Apostolic brothers and sisters never miss an opportunity to bring them up and rub them into my face when I want to talk to them about how Rome respects the Eastern Church's Traditions.

As to your second question, you are correct we have the sad distinction of perhaps being the first latinized Eastern Church. During the Crusades this took place as Rome tried to make us her obedient latinized daughter. Those were sad days for Church universal.

I just wrote a document about this very issue and how Armenian Catholics and Apostolics can work together and challenge one another to return to our authentic traditions. You and anyone else are welcome to check it out if interested:

http://www.geocities.com/wmwolfe_48044/Articles1.html

(click on "Ecumenical Relations between the Armenian Catholic & Armenian Apostolic Churches")

In Christ's Light,

Der-Ghazarian

I read it and was confused the title made absolutelutely no sense.
Here the OL gaterings in Washington are cordial and fraternal and frank discussion at restoring union among the Churches, it had nothing to do with a squabble.
Stephanos I