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#19543 01/18/03 07:46 AM
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Yesterday in the NY TIMES:
In an article reviewing the new icon exhibit at the Onassis Cultural Center, the author prefaced his review by recounting his 1982 trip to Mt. Athos. Besides saying his boat from the mainland was delayed two days because a "distraught monk had locked himself in a cell with explosives, threatening to blow up a monastery," he stated that "women, unless they were theology students, were not allowed on Athos."
I have never heard of this. Can anyone verify that a woman may indeed visit the Holy Mountain?

#19544 01/18/03 11:36 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by durak:
Yesterday in the NY TIMES:
In an article reviewing the new icon exhibit at the Onassis Cultural Center, the author prefaced his review by recounting his 1982 trip to Mt. Athos. Besides saying his boat from the mainland was delayed two days because a "distraught monk had locked himself in a cell with explosives, threatening to blow up a monastery," he stated that "women, unless they were theology, students were not allowed on Athos."
I have never heard of this. Can anyone verify that a woman may indeed visit the Holy Mountain?
Dear durak,

Yes the Holy Mount is exclusively male. This can be easily verified on the internet. Here is just one site that states the following: The population of this particular state has been exclusively male since 1060 when a Byzantine edict issued by the Emperor Kostantinos Monomahos, the Avaton, banned females permanently from Athos.

http://www.helios.gr/travel-guide/halkidiki/frames/agionoros1.htm

I have always heard that even female animals are not allowed there.

T

#19545 01/18/03 02:05 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Tony:
Quote
Originally posted by durak:
[b]Yesterday in the NY TIMES:
In an article reviewing the new icon exhibit at the Onassis Cultural Center, the author prefaced his review by recounting his 1982 trip to Mt. Athos. Besides saying his boat from the mainland was delayed two days because a "distraught monk had locked himself in a cell with explosives, threatening to blow up a monastery," he stated that "women, unless they were theology students, were not allowed on Athos."
I have never heard of this. Can anyone verify that a woman may indeed visit the Holy Mountain?
Dear durak,

Yes the Holy Mount is exclusively male. This can be easily verified on the internet. Here is just one site that states the following: The population of this particular state has been exclusively male since 1060 when a Byzantine edict issued by the Emperor Kostantinos Monomahos, the Avaton, banned females permanently from Athos.

http://www.helios.gr/travel-guide/halkidiki/frames/agionoros1.htm

I have always heard that even female animals are not allowed there.

T[/b]
Esteemed Tony,

From your link:
"The population of this particular state has been exclusively male since 1060 when a Byzantine edict issued by the Emperor Kostantinos Monomahos, the Avaton, banned females permanently from Athos."

Still to be clarified:

Since the first part of the sentence refers to population (i.e., people who can and do live there) does the permanent bann on females refer to both residence and visitation rights?

#19546 01/18/03 02:20 PM
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Women are not permitted on the Holy Mountain of Athos. Period. It does not matter whether or not they are visitors or residents. All the monasteries of this monastic republic are exclusively male. The only female on Mount Athos is its Great Abbess, the Most Holy Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary. All of Mount Athos should be considered as one vast male monastery. Should non-monastic outsiders be allowed forcible entrance where they are neither invited nor desired? Does this not intrude upon religious liberty and the unique status of the Holy Mountain? Is it to be turned into just a tourist destination?

OrthodoxEast

#19547 01/18/03 02:20 PM
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The Holy Mountain allows no women for several reasons one of which is a spiritual one: The Theotokos Herself had told a monk many centuries ago that She did not wish any other women on the Mountain other than Herself. She is the Queen and Abbess of Athos.
Silouan, monk

#19548 01/18/03 03:24 PM
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Sorry for an incomplete response to the question. My choice of links was poor.

Here is another:

http://www.monachos.net/monasticism/athos/visiting_athos.shtml

It starts with "Mount Athos is open only to men..." Any Orthodox priest can verify that for you.

#19549 01/18/03 04:23 PM
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There is one exception to the no female rule on Mt. Athos: cats! Female cats are allowed.

William Dalrymple documents it in his excellent book �From the Holy Mountain: A Journey among the Christians of the Middle East� (1997, Owl Book, 483 pages, ISBN 0-8050-6177-0, ~$18). The book is a journal account of the author�s retracing the journey of the monks John Moschos and Sophronius took in of A.D. 587. He paints a wonderful picture of the Christian East before the rise of Islam. Only the first 25 or so pages are specifically about Athos but the book provides a good insight into the world of monasticism for the layman as well as the current life of Christians in the Mid East.

#19550 01/18/03 06:04 PM
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I apologise for what might be a very silly question.

Do the monks allow chickens or do they abstain from eggs?

#19551 01/18/03 11:43 PM
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I guess that would depend on whether they are doing a bloodless fast or not smile

#19552 01/19/03 01:50 AM
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I apologise for what might be a very silly answer. smile

It depends which comes first, the chickens or the eggs.

Or maybe, they only eat eggs from Ortho-ducks? biggrin

Do they get regular shipments of pysanky from Ukraine?

Do they patrol regularly to trap and remove any female animals that might wander onto the mountain?

#19553 01/19/03 02:14 AM
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John et al. --
As Mr. Spock used to say - "Fascinating." You know, I have always gotten so much from reading books such as those by and about the Holy Mountain, for example Saint Silouan of Mount Athos, but the thing was that I never recall any emphasis being placed on the non-female rule there. The books were about spiritual life - NOT about the fact that females aren't allowed. It is kind of strange to focus on it to the exclusion of what the whole life there is really all about.
Anyway, thanks, though, it does make for interesting .. uh, shall I say, John, 'food for thought' ?
Back to Spock: "Fascinating!..."
biggrin

#19554 01/19/03 08:20 PM
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Dear Brother Silouan,

Greetings in our Lord!

I am having a discourse with some fellow Orthodox women of the feminist leaning about the rule of the Holy Mountain, Athos in not allowing women. I was able to relay the story of our most holy Theotokos telling a monk that she did not wish any other women there but Herself. I thank you for that information. However, I am now being challenged to prove documentation to back this up..the ladies not accepting heresay, even from a monastic!

Could you give me a little more background about this, and where it could, perhaps be accessed.

They obviously cannot accept the other more obvious reasons, so I must convince them of this.

Thankyou so much,
I ask your blessing,
Alice

#19555 01/19/03 09:39 PM
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William Dalrymple did state that his grandmother was allowed to stay in a tent on Mt. Athos for a month to do some sort of artistic renditions a century ago. Anyone know how she was an exception?

In Christ,

anastasios

#19556 01/20/03 04:19 AM
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As an Orthodox monk I would simply say that we need venture NO FURTHER than the comment previously made. Mount Athos is a MONASTIC republic and is like a great monastery whose rule precludes the presence of women. The issue endes there!!!

Many male Orthodox monasteries do not allow women to enter. It is not a peculiarly Athonite thing and it is certainly not a rarity. The whole issue is sensationalised as some mediaeval relic and an oddity. It is neither. It is a common Orthodox practice. We need not put forward apologetics or explanation.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#19557 01/20/03 01:42 PM
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Dear Father Mark,

I am the most ardent supporter of the ancient and holy discipline of monasticism. My spiritual father is an Athonite monk here in the U.S. I have financially supported monasteries in Greece, and I am the translator of 'St. Nectarios, A Saint for our Times'...he, himself, a monk as well as Bishop.

I am ONLY the messenger. Please do not be angry at me. However, it is a fact that there is a rampant LIBERAL laity in the Greek Orthodox Church here, many of whom are women, and they just don't accept things the way I do. If documentation is needed to prevent an uprising against Mount Athos and its rules, then I would love to have it. The only way to squelch liberal and modernist heresies is from within, don't you
think? Otherwise, please understand, I agree with you fully.

In Christ's love,
I ask for your blessing,
Alice smile

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