www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ecumenism

What is the opinion of ecumenism here?
I personally thinks its wrong,because it makes dialogue with Schismatics[which offend the Byzantine and Oriental Catholics] and dialogues with heretics and apostates,which constantly blaspheme Jesus Christ, that don't bring about conversions].An example against Ecumenicism is why did those Ukrainian PRIESTS and BISHOPS RUN UNDEGROUND SEMINARIES WHEN THEY COULD OF GONE TO THE schismatic seminary,which was fully legal.

In +JMJ+,
[Ask your bishops and priests to end the Balamand accords.]

Dear RP,

Welcome to The Byzantine Forum.

Can you tell us your religious denomination? Your comments seem to indicate that you are a member of the SSPX or other group that rejects Catholic Teaching.

If you are Catholic, you might be interested to know that Pope John Paul II has stated that �even the term �schism� is too strong to describe the [continuing] separation [of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches].�

The Vatican II Council's Decree on Ecumenism, referring to the Orthodox Churches, went so far as to declare that "through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches, the Church of God is built up and grows in stature" (Decree on Ecumenism - Unitatis Redintegratio, 15).

Your comments about those who blaspheme Jesus Christ are rather confusing. It seems to be directed to the Orthodox Church. But the Catholic Church clearly teaches that the entire Church of Christ is built up by the celebration of the Eucharist in the Orthodox Church.

Is the Christian witness among the Orthodox who collaborated with the atheist communists to violently absorb our Greek Catholic Churches into Russian Orthodoxy during the Soviet period a poor one? Definitely. His Grace, Bishop Kallistos [Ware] � an Orthodox Bishop - calls this collaboration �perhaps the darkest chapter in the story of the Moscow Patriarchate�s collusion with Communism.� I pray someday that the Moscow Patriarch will acknowledge this wrong and apologize for it. In the meantime we must forgive and repent for our own sins.

Again, welcome to the Forum!

Admin

I am a Roman Catholic and I see the answers to many of the Church's problems in traditon.I am not only talking about orthodox,the major problem with them is Petrine Primacy for almost everything else is okay with them.Ergo this is schism. In heretics and apostates I mean Protestants and others such as the pagans of Asia and New Age.What good is ecumenism when your not allowed to build churches in Russia that would belong to Catholics of any groupung.
Metropolitan Slipyj didn't give up to the Soviets and become a schismatic bishop.But why did he not do this for the Catholic and Eastern Schismatics are one and the same church.Search for references to ecumenism as such is prscticed today in Pope St.Pius X' letters or Pope Blessed Pius IX

RP,

One must always examine the teachings and action of the Catholic Church in the light of all its theology. To pick and choose quotes from prior periods and to use them outside the context of the fullness of Catholic Teaching while at the same time rejecting or ignoring other teachings is to be a Protestant.

Pope John Paul II has stated that �even the term �schism� is too strong to describe the [continuing] separation [of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches].� You are free to reject his teaching on this subject but please do not present your position as a Catholic one.

The Byzantine Forum is meant to be an internet home for all Eastern Christians and those interested in Eastern Christianity. As such, it is an ecumenical forum. You may disagree with the theology of another Church. We ask that participants post all things in charity. Please follow the example of Pope John Paul II and choose not to use the term �schismatic� or �heretic� to describe individuals or their Churches. If this is problematic for you please do not post again.

Admin

Admin,
thank you for your response.In heretic I mean Protestant. I will stop using dome words which you asked me of.What teachings do I ignore in using past popes' name and saying what they said? In one of your post admin,you wrote that quotes from the past can not be used to justify and give solutions for today's problems.What is the full CATHOLIC TEACHING you speak of? So theology changes with the sitaution does it?
So give me an example of the Church fathers,East or west proving that ecumenism,in its modern form can be used or tell me how Catholic theology changes with different sitautions? Who said this Sts.John Chrysostom,Basil the Great,Ephrem,Hilary of Poitiers ,Augustine,
Athanasius:Apostles Peter,Andrew,James the Great,James The Less,or any other saints.Please prove it to me.And this quote from JPII did you see him saying it,did you understand the language he spoke it in,was this term translated from another language[The translator is a traitor.] and if he really did say it remember the Pope is still a man and can err.

RP,

I am beginning to think that this Forum is not a place where you should participate. You, a newcomer, have come into our internet household demanding that we prove ourselves to you. That is very uncharitable. It is you, the newcomer, who should have enough respect for your hosts to put forth a rational argument for your positions.

I am not about to enter a dialogue defending Catholicism to someone who claims to be Catholic but appears ignorant of Catholic theology. I will, however, respond to some of your points.

RP wrote: �one of your post admin,you wrote that quotes from the past can not be used to justify and give solutions for today's problems� So give me an example of the Church fathers,East or west proving that ecumenism,in its modern form can be used or tell me how Catholic theology changes with different sitautions?�

I said no such thing. You have done nothing but misstate my post and then respond to a misstatement of your own creation.

To repeat: One must always examine the teachings and action of the Catholic Church in the light of all its theology. To pick and choose quotes from prior periods and to use them outside the context of the fullness of Catholic Teaching while at the same time rejecting or ignoring other teachings is to be a Protestant.

What does this mean exactly? It means one must look to the entire Catholic Tradition to understand something that has been stated at any time. This means that a quote from a Council or from a pope needs to be understood in context. More often than not the texts of Councils or the teachings of the popes addressed specific issues within the Church at a particular time. They must be examined and seen in light of this context and then meshed together with the entirety of Catholic Teaching. Just as children grow into adults so, too, does the Church build upon earlier expressions theology to better teach the Church.

If you study the Vatican II Council�s "Decree on Ecumenism" [vatican.va] you fill find much food for thought. The opinions you have expressed are in stark contrast to those expressed by the "Decree on Ecumenism", as well as Pope John Paul II�s encyclical �Unt Unim Sint� [vatican.va] and his apostolic letter �Orientale Lumen". [vatican.va] I suggest that it is up to you, the newcomer who disagrees with Catholic Teaching, to provide a solid argument attempting to convince us that you are correct and that the Church is incorrect.

If you are serious I expect your next post to be full of quotes for the three documents I have noted.

Admin

RP assures us that he (or she) "will stop using dome words". Since I have not the slightest idea what a dome word might be (cupola? Onion?), could RP be so kind as to tell us what this expression refers to?
Incognitus

The Administrator said:

Looks like we just might have another "flash in the pan" type that will get people's blood pressure up and then vanish as quickly as he/she swooped in. :rolleyes:

Yours,

hal


P.S. Ecumenism is, like everything else in life, good in moderation.

Since I'm capable of being outrageously uncharitable myself, I'm in no position to object to others being uncharitable (this doesn't stop me, you understand!). But RP seems to suffer from a fundamental problem - he wants, even demands, that the Greek-Catholics should conform to the procrustean bed of his peculiar standards. If he has any serious interest in us in the first place, he needs to find out much more about us - which is, I realize, the pursuit of a lifetime, even for those who are literate.
Incognitus

Ah Incognitus,

Who could think that of you? Actually, you demonstrate remarkable restraint. But, I'm not posting to pamper your ego ; merely wanted to let you know that you may be getting the recipe for Alleppine pastries sooner rather than later. The person whom I thought might have it doesn't, but her husband knows someone who does and is going to track it down this week for you .

Many years,

Neil