www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Pictures of Chaldean Catholic Parish

That church is about 2 miles from my house, (in fact, I have to drive past it to get to my Latin parish)

It is where I go when I feel the need to 'go Eastern' and yes, it is quite beautiful.

Dear Friends,

Can anyone comment on the "Assyrian Orthodox" or the Assyrians that have, at different points in time, come into the Orthodox Church?

Alex

Alex,

Not sure about whom you are inquiring. Are you referring to the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch a/k/a the Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church and the Syriac Orthodox Church? They have also used the terminology Assyrian Orthodox Church and many of their older parishes in the US still include that nomenclature in the parish name, e.g., the Assyrian Orthodox Church of the Virgin Mary in Paramus, NJ, which is their oldest US parish.

Many years,

Neil

Alice:

Among the several Chaldean Catholic churches here in the US, I personally consider this church in Troy to be the most beautiful among them. Other Chaldeans may disagree.

Incognitus:

A former priest of this church Fr. Sarhad Yawsip Jammo celebrated the Holy Qurbana by facing the East as was traditionally done in the Church of the East. This priest was recently elected bishop for a new eparchy in San Diego of which I am a member. To my understanding, in a recent Chaldean synod, the new Bishop persuaded the synod to restore the ancient liturgical practice of facing the east. So, I am presuming that Chaldean churches all over the world are now having the Holy Qurbana celebrated facing the east, or at least, that is certainly how it is being done right now in St. Peter's, the new bishop's cathedral.

Brian:

Yes, we do have a good amount of latinizations. While the Second Vatican Council has authoritatively mandated that we restore our Eastern patrimony in its fullness, this process will take a lot of time.

Orthodox Catholic:

This is probably the group you were looking for: http://www.roca.org/chicagoanddetroit/bishop.htm

God bless,

Rony

Dear Chaldean Catholic.

I know a little bit about the Assyrian Church of the East but very few about its Catholic counterpart the Chaldean Church.

As far as I know the Assyrian Church has three masses: the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mari (the regular liturgy), the Anaphora of Mar Nestorious and the Anaphora of Mar Theodore of Mophusetia.

Does the Chaldean Church preserve the same liturgies?

I know they have the first anaphora but do they also celebrate the other two named after Greek doctors considered heretics by Catholics and Orthodox?

When are the last wo liturgies celebrated?

Mexican,

The Assyrians serve the Anaphora of Saints Addai and Mari, Disciplers of the East, from Holy Saturday until the last Sunday prior to Advent.

They serve the Anaphora of Theodore the Interpreter on Sundays from Advent until the Sunday of Palms.

The Anaphora of Nestorius is served on Epiphany, the Memorial of Mar Yohannan Mamdhana (John the Baptist), the Memorial of Greek Malpans (the Greek Doctors), Wednesday of the Ba'utha of the Ninevites (the Fast of the Ninevites) - three weeks prior to Lent, and on Maundy Thursday.

There are three other Anaphorae referenced in older documents, those of Barsuma, Narses, and Diodorus, but none of those texts are extant.

An excellent reference on the Church of the East is at:

Unofficial Webpage of the Church of the East [nestorian.org]

I think the Chaldeans observe essentially the same liturgical calendar and I believe they serve the same Anaphorae, but I'll leave a definitive answer on that to Chaldean.

Many years,

Neil

Mexican and Irish Melkite:

We do observe essentially the same calendar despite some differences. We do have the other two anaphoras besides the first one. As to when they are celebrated, the dates given above are fine.

God bless,

Rony

Shlomo Irish Melkite,
Actually, Bema is a Aramaic word. In Synagogues, as well as the Temple have/had Bemas.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Yuhannon:

Do you know a certain Maronite apologist named Naji Mouawad?

God bless,

Rony

Shlomo Chaldean,
I know of Naji Mouawad, but I do not know him.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Dr. Alex,

I while back I mentioned that I would have Qasha Klutz participate in the forum a bit. He is now the Chancellor to Diocese Eastern U.S.A. Assyrian Church of the East.

As such we will veiw some of the threads here and he will comment accordingly.

I differ to him at this time.


Dear Neil,

Peace adn joy through Jesus Christ our Risen Lord: Amen

The three Anaphora used in The Church are indeed as you had noted. Those of Mar Addai and Mari, which is in common use throughout the year, however, when I was ordained over 40 years past, we did use all three of these Anaphora, and you have noted.

However, in time past we did use, the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari for approximately 1/2 of the year, and then we would utilize the that of Mar Theodoros of M'Psuestia . . and again 5 ditmes a year we did use the Anaphora of Mar Nestorius . . You did note, however, those times, and I will direct you to the the use of the Mar Nestorius (really Basil the Greek Doctor) used at the celebration of Thanksgiving following the Rogation of the Ninevites is not celebrated on a Wednesday, but on Thursday . . the three days of fast (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday) the conclusion was the time of Thanksgiving on the following morning hours of Thurdsay . .

Indeed, we celebrate the Commemoration of St John Baptist utilizing the Anaphora of Mar Nestorius,
and the rest of celebrations of the Divine Liturgy will utilize the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari (really an ancient and perhaps the oldest liturgy in the whole of the Apostolic Chruch).

Qasha C Klutz

Alex, this is Matthew Panchisin due to time constraints I will send you PM with Qasha Klutz's email address should you ever seek any clarification or addition information for further dissemination.

(The Anaphora of Nestorius is served on Epiphany, the Memorial of Mar Yohannan Mamdhana (John the Baptist), the Memorial of Greek Malpans (the Greek Doctors), Wednesday of the Ba�utha of the Ninevites (the Fast of the Ninevites) - three weeks prior to Lent, and on Maundy Thursday.)

That website with the photographs has moved. Would someone who is better at computer technology than I am do us the great favor of tracking down the address for those photographs? Thanks in advance!

Incognitus

Incognitus,

Thanks for pointing this out. I have e-mailed the young man who took and posted the photo series, as I can't locate them on his website [edoras.ucsd.edu] , which has been much enlarged since I viewed it a year ago. BTW, his paper on the Chaldean Liturgy [nd.edu] is still available online via the link that I posted last year.

His site bears watching, as he is pursuing anthropological work and is soon planning to undertake studies on the Ethiopian Tewahado Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church. (I also took the opportunity, in my e-mail to him, to invite him to join us here at the Forum, since I thought that periodic postings on his research might provide some interesting information for us to learn more about and discuss our Ethiopian and Eritrean brethren.)

Will let you know what I hear from him.

Many years,

Neil

Incognitus,

Ask and you shall receive .

Andrew Casad, the gentleman who took the pictures and wrote the paper, was kind enough to respond to me by e-mail early yesterday and provided an updated link for the photos.

St. Joseph\'s Chaldean Catholic Church, Troy, MI [edoras.ucsd.edu]

I invited Andrew to check out the Forum, telling him that there would likely be a great deal of interest here in his planned studies of the Ethiopian Tewehado Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church. He replied that he would and I see that he has already done so and posted to a thread elsewhere here.

Many years,

Neil

Can someone perhaps find pictures of the lovely church interior of the Chaldean Catholic Church in Paris, France?

Incognitus