www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall New News From SSPX!

The buzz that is going around is that 3 of 4 Bishops of SSPX are about to come into full communion with Rome. Rome has agreed to some of there issues. Latin Mass for all Roman Catholics?

Here is just one story: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-653981,00.html

Good news, if true.

I actually think there may be more traditional Tridentine masses within the Roman Catholic church than outside it already. At least it seems that way where I live, I wish there were statistics on the subject available. If there are approximately 150,000 followers of SSPX they are smaller than the Old Catholic movement and may be dealing with an aging population scattered worldwide.

I have been thinking about this issue for a while and wondering whatever may happen. I used to think that most RC parishes should have at least one Tridentine mass offered every weekend to give the faithful the option of attending. I now believe that the idea would be impractical for a number of reasons.

Given that there is a provision for Anglican use parishes within the church I could see something similar arranged for the Tridentine use parishes. Even a Personal Prelature similar to Opus Dei might be possible. I guess the important thing is that the parties are talking.

I guess it might be appropriate to pray over the issue. I hope to see all schisms find an end.

Michael, sinner

I hope this is true but will believe it when I see it. The SSPX outrightly refused a similar offer less than two years ago. They were even offered an independent prelature, similar to how the Jesuits operate, but refused.

I think there is too much internal division and union will only be achieved piecemeal. It would be nearly impossible for all four of the original bishops consecrated by Msgr. Lefebvre to agree at this point on a joint set of conditions for reunion. I do, however, think the analysis of this article with regards to Bishop Williamson is accurate. He has paraded the internal dissent and instigated breaking off negotiations with Rome on more than one occasion.

Michael:

Under the current Ecclesia Dei guidelines, indults for the celebration of the Tridentine Mass are granted by the diocesan Bishop to INDIVIDUAL priests and NOT to parishes.

The only exception I can think of is the INSTITUTIONAL indult granted by the Holy Father to the Fraternal Society of St. Peter (a priestly Order originally composed of SSPX clergy). All priests of the FSSP celebrate the Tridentine Mass exclusively.

"Tridentine Use Parishes" may not be formed a la "Anglican Use Parishes" because the Tridentine Mass is still the Roman Rite, although it has been replaced by the Novus Ordo of Pope Paul VI world wide.

Parishioners desiring a celebration of the Tridentine Mass should petition their Bishop for an indult to be granted to one of their priests. Normally, the Bishop will grant such a request if there is a sufficient number of parishioners to support such move.

To date, 120 dioceses in the U.S. and Canada have granted one or more of their priests in at least 211 parishes the indult to celebrate the traditional Latin Mass. (BTW, the Novus Ordo is, likewise, a Latin Mass; only, it has been allowed by Rome to be translated into languages extant in each area of the globe.)

I join you and Johan S. in prayer for the eventual return of the SSPX to Rome as did the Society of St. John Vianney of Campos, Brazil (also Lefebvrites like the SSPX) last year.

AmdG

Dear Diak:

I would like to offer a minor correction to your post:

The Society of Jesus, or the Jesuits, DO NOT operate as an independent prelature. The Society is a Religious Order.

Thus far, the ONLY (personal) prelature of the Pope (including all previous Popes) is the OPUS DEI.


AmdG

Thanks for that clarification, Amado. I thought OD and SJ had the same arrangment. I can't keep up with all this Latin canonical stuff.

Dear SubDeacon Randolph:


Me, too!

Luckily, I went through the Jesuit "educational system" and was "grilled" on the Order's life and times.

I nearly joined the OD in Manila, way back when, but it was manned by many Jesuits and Jesuit-educated friends. I opted out to rest my weary soul!

AmdG

One of the aspirations of Latin traditionalists is to restore the right of every priest to celebrate the Traditional Mass without the permission of the local Bishops (who are mostly opposed to it). If the Pope does not grant this right, I suppose it would be hard for a full reconcilliation to happen soon.

Snoop:


I appreciate your observation but, somehow, it is clearly misplaced.

A Greek Orthodox like yourself trying to impress upon us Catholics (many of which are, themselves,
"traditionalists") is akin to a blind leading the half-blind.

Unless you have become a Catholic or, you are, being a Mexican or at least living in Mexico, a Catholic by heart?

AmdG

Hi

Umm... Catholics in this and other forums share their opinions about the dialogues between the MP and the ROCOR, the situation of the EP, the canonical problems of Orthodoxy in America. Can't we all just get along?

I have a lot of sympathy for those who follow the traditional mass which is perhaps the most important legacy of Western Christianity to the world. It's ironic, but a more traditional latin church would be a good sign
for Ecumenism with Orthodox Churches.

Actually, the time of the greatest ecumenical contacts between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches came at the time of the 2nd Vatican Council and immediately after. The Catholic Church pre-Vatican II was not exactly interested in "ecumenical" relations with the Orthodox but constantly used the words "dissident" and "schismatic" in respect to them. Thank God for the Vatican Council that helped change this attitude!

Story May Be A Hoax!

I found this: http://www.seattlecatholic.com/pr_20030421.html

However, a creditable Catholic News source is still reporting an agreement had been made.

Go here:
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=21905

I am not sure what to believe now...

Uhm, just a gentle reminder that this thread is entitled: "Byzantine News" and the topics should really have some sort of connection to the Byzantine Catholic Church and to its people. While the SSPX and its activities may have an influence on the Universal Church, it is essentially a community of the Roman Church and really doesn't have much of an impact on us or on our 'separated Byzantine' brethren ( ) in the Orthodox Churches.

Christ is Risen!

I am sorry to sound niave but I have just got to take a leap of faith and believe this one.

It sounds just too good to be true. But mabye God just decided to draw back and pass a miracle!

Robert

I have to agree with Dr. John: this is not a Byzantine topic.

After begging your patience, I have to ask one question. What does one do in a place where there is no priest who reads Latin and where parishes no longer have many of the required liturgical items to celebrate the Latin Mass?

I had an experience with a funeral where the family insisted that they wanted a traditional Latin Mass. Fortunately a very pastoral older priest took them aside and told them that no one had a Latin Missal around that he knew of, that he had none of the required vestments and didn't know where he could locate a set in time, and that many of the other things usually associated with the liturgical practice of that era had been disposed of in most parishes. He also told them that his own Latin would be rusty enough that they might not be happy with the result. He left them with the question of whether they wanted to postpone the funeral until all the needed things could be located and he could brush up on his Latin.

My current pastor learned no Latin at all in his seminary curriculum. And he's not alone. So what would happen with such a blanket permission or even requirement?

BOB