www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy The Babas Know

Seems like the cat is now out of the bag on this feminist inclusive language business. The Babas (never to miss anything) are catching wind of the proposed changes to our Liturgy.

Now the bishops and the translation committee are in deep trouble. We need to have that Sobor even if we only call it a Conference. If Father Loya can get the money together to bring Father Serge and Father David here then it should be in Chicago. I always prefer Disney World but I'm not sure how much work would get done if we met there.

CDL

I apologize for my ignorance. What is a Sobor?

Conference

Why did you write:

If they mean the same thing?

Does it have a connotation that makes it different than just a weekend conference, like I would go to for continuing education?

Of course the Babas know. Have you never heard of OBS, the Greek-Catholic intelligence agency? The initials mean Odna Baba Skazala . . . it never fails.

Incognitus

I'd guess someone on this board knows the answer.

CDL

I would advise avoiding the word "Sobor", since the hierarchs might take offense. There are several non-threatening words such as "conference" or convocation" or "consultation" which can be used.

Fr Serge

I will use "conference" from now on.

CDL

I would heartily agree with Archimandrite Serge. Generally the Patriarch, Metropolitan or the Synod convenes a Sobor. That will likely not be the case in this instance.
FDD

Dr. Eric,

I found the below explanation of the various forms a sobor takes and how it is distinguished from a synod at this website [encyclopediaofukraine.com] .

Sobor. A formal gathering or council of bishops, church officials, and monastic and lay representatives morally representing the whole particular church and dealing with matters of faith, morality, rite, and canonical and cultural life. The term is derived from the Church Slavonic word for an assembly. The sobor is distinguished from the synod, which is usually an assembly of bishops. From the earliest days of the Christian church, councils were convened as a means of deciding matters related to church life and policy. The development of a full church infrastructure led eventually to the existence of several types of sobors reflecting different ecclesiastical jurisdictions. These include ecumenical (vselenskyi), particular (pomisnyi), provincial (provintsiinyi), eparchial (eparkhiialnyi), and minor (soborchyk) sobors....

So, Sobor can be used legitimately if we have a bishop present. I don't know if that will happen or not. So, I'll call it a "conference" until or unless the bishop calls it a sobor.

CDL

The simple presence of a Bishop at a gathering, conference, or what-have-you does not transform that gathering into a Sobor.

I again advise avoiding that word. Its use is not warranted in this context, and it would be perceived as an impertinence, even a threat.

Fr. Serge

To make sure it is clear, I was not advocating the usage of the word, just the understanding of it. In light of Father's previous post it was apparent to me that it should be avoided when discussing the proposed convention. What wasn't clear was what the difference was.

I don't want any angry bishops being traced back to me!

Or the BBC?
Baba Babi Ckazala!