www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Singing the Liturgy

There are a couple of great posts on Amy Welborn's blog about music in the Latin Rite. One comment by a biritual priest bears directly on revisions in the BCC liturgy (near the end) and I quote the comment in full.

Here are the links to the two posts (which deal mostly with the Latin Rite)

http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/10/historical_cont.html#comments

http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/10/sing_a_new_song.html

This article is most welcome. It gives me insight into the demise of Latin singing and offers a warning to us that we must protect our singing. Thankfully, I've never attended a Byzantine Church that avoids singing but I've heard of said. In fact one of our Deacons is on loan for a bit to another Church. Part of his mission is to reintroduce singing.

CDL

Yes, CDL, we must protect our singing, but who is the protector? I have attended several Liturgies at our Cathedral, and have witnessed and experienced the Eparchial Choir singing the responses.....singing Choral pieces. It was not possible to have congregational singing....and these were important events. It felt odd.

Who gives them permission to do this? In my own parish, our choir would sing a harmonized version of the pew book. It was rather easy to sing, and quite fun at times to try to harmonize your part.

In the Byzantine Church, singing is prayer. When you don't sing, it feels as though you didn't pray. I hope our God-loving Bishop takes that into consideration when having the Eparchial Choir sing.

JMHO, Cathy

BTW, my reason for posting in this forum is the comment in the bolded paragraph about reciting the anaphora outloud.

Dear CRW,

I noted that in reviewing your initial post that started this thread.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I noticed this as a difference between my previous parish and my current. The simple recitation I think has a few factors, and I didn't care for it.

Andrew

Glory to Jesus Christ!

There are so many mistakes in the material quoted that I do not know where to start.

First of all:
"The model of a recited liturgy so much controled the post-Vatican II reforms that the liturgical books we have now were (no matter what the "rubrics" about the importance of music say) NOT intended to be sung. The Office as we have it is entirely constructed to be a private priestly prayer. At each our three (or fewer if they are long) number of psalms "embellished" with newly invented antiphons (thus NO Gregorian music!) and long readings (intended to be read, not sung) with newly invented "responses" for which there was never any music. What was once the great choral tradition of the Church was reduced to "prayer time, study time" for the clergy. A private prayer totally unsuited to sung worship. Shameful."

This is most certainly NOT true. I have used the sung Roman office (transcribed into English) and COMPLETELY sung in Gregorian chant, partially with choir and mostly with congregation. And in Germany, there is an official Antiphoner with music (Gregorian chant) for all the services of Vespers and Lauds in the Liturgy of the Hours, published jointly by the bishops of Germany, Germ-an speaking Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and Austria. This priest may never have experienced it (and certainly the US RC bishops have not done much to encourage it) but it certainly exists and has been well done.

"The revised Mass of the liturgists was wholly conceived as a "said" service. The liturgists introduced long (mostly) priestly prayers (Penitential rite, Prayers over the Gifts, spoken canon) that were absent in the traditional rite, where all "public" prayers, excepting a handful of collects, were, at least in theory, sung by the people or a schola."

Not only were these not conceived this way, there is chant for ALL of those portions of the service. Again, people aren't using them, it's not that they aren't there. AND THAT INCLUDES THE RECITATIVES FOR THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER.

"The result is a liturgy in which a "sung" liturgy would have the priest celebrant chanting long, often didactic, texts to minimalistic tones for probably 70% of the liturgy. Yes, the congregation might sing the "ordinary" (Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus--forget the Creed!--and a couple of amens and "with your spirits") but these appear as intrusions into the priest's monologue."

Speaking as someone who worked for more than 30 years in Roman-Rite parishes as a musician, I know that this is simply not accurate. The current Roman rite is NOT a priestly monologue.

"And even priests who favor a musically rich liturgy often simply recite their prayers. (I cannot sing; its early in the morning; I didn't learn the tune; etc.) I have been at many Masses where a well-trained choir sings the entire Ordinary, leads the congregation is hymns, AND adds in some of the Gregorian propers, and the celebrant simply recites every word of his "part." And there is nothing to say that this is "wrong." The problem here is that (in spite of occasional documents) priests of the Latin rite are trained to believe that all they need do is recite their prayers for the Mass to be "valid." (Which is, of course, true.) Perhaps it is nice to sing a couple of the collects or even a preface (on Christmas and Easter) but Mass is "valid" if they are rattled off without song (reverently, of course)."

Here, unfortunately, I must concede that this peron is correct. Inadequate instruction in Roman seminaries, and a more-or-less "individualistic" approach to the priest's responsibilities in the Liturgy have brought them to this pass. But you CANNOT read the documents and the Praenotanda and the General Instructions on the Roman Missal and the Liturgy of the Hours and claim that this is the mindset of the Church, for it is not.

"There is a culture of worship in the Latin rite, and (as one who served in a Byzantine commuity) creeping into the Eastern Rites, and Orthodox, I might add, in which simple recitation of prayers seems more "pious" than singing. In both Eastern Rites and Orthodox services, I notice two clear indications of this. First, the move to recite (without singing) the previously silent parts of the anaphora ("so that people can hear them") and the almost universal move to a congregational recitation of the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God" (previously a quiet prayer of the priest and ministers) by the whole congregation."

This is coming from someone who doesn't understand the dynamics of the Eastern Liturgy as it is celebrated in many places. Apart from the Old Believers, the Galicians and Carpatho-Rusyns, and some of the Greek Old Believers, congregational singing is almost non-existent in Eastern Orthodox worship and has been for many centuries. The custom of "pious listening" is extremely intrenched, for example, in parishes of the Russian Orthodox churches.

And the communion prayer, far from being a private devotion of the clergy, was said TWICE in the old days in all Eastern churches: once privately by the clergy before their communion, and once out loud before the distribution of the Eucharist to the faithful.

"The sense that the liturgy is a joining of voices in song to the praise of the Lord has been lost or is degraded. Forget the words of St. Augustine "Qui cantat bis orat.""

This quote, which is ascribed to St. Augustine of Hippo, is in fact misquoted. The Latin is "Bene cantat, bis orat." He who sings WELL, prays twice.


Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

Cathy,

Such is our chant tradition. :rolleyes:

Certainly, the people don't permit it to happen.

My parish has a schola whereby we sing Plainchant. Sometimes, folks harmonize.

I don't know who is trying to sell whom a mistaken impression here. But it is an easily verified truth that choral singing is definitely a historic part of the Ruthenian tradition of liturgical music. This is not intended to be an argument against congregational singing; both styles can coexist not only peacefully but pleasantly. Some pieces cannot be executed well without a choir; other pieces can be done by a congregation but the congregation will learn them better and gain more confidence if the pieces are introduced and supported by a choir.

Moreover, those who want the "Byzantine Catholic Church" to be what that sounds like would do well to receive the totality of the Byzantine musical tradition, instead of restricting themselves to the southern slopes of the Carpathian Mountains.

Fr. Serge

Hear, Hear! Fr. Serge. Thanks for your voice of reason and balance.
Music does not exist in a vacuum isolated from other influences, nor does it stand still.

Also, histoircally, there have always been differences between the music of the city cathedral and the village parish with the faithful diak, who often played a dual role as the village teacher in the 2 year primary school and congregation.

Yes, there is a place for both. However, on these occasions I speak of, the entire Divine Liturgy has been sung with only choral music. When you don't have the music in front of you, it's difficult to sing along. It's like trying to sing a duet with someone who can't read music, but you do. At some point, someone is going to have to shut their mouth, and just hum along....................

JMTC,
Cathy

My parish alternates between harmonized singing from the pew book led by the choir, and plainchant led by one of the cantors.

The parish is Pod Karpatska Rus' in origin.

Andrew

Pod-Karpats'ka Rus' has some excellent Church choirs. The choir of the Greek-Catholic Cathedral in Uzhhorod has won prizes in international competition. I really do not recommend writing the Cathedral and demanding that the choir should disband, or stop singing in Church.

Fr. Serge

No one is asking the choir be disbanded. Rather, that diligence be used in making sure the Divine Liturgy is a mix of pieces so that the congregation doesn't walk away feeling cheated. The "Lord have mercys" were even in choral.

I might add, other people who attended with me were as dissapointed as I was, and couldn't believe they did the entire Liturgy the way they did. I hope you'll agree Fr. Serge that there has to be balance. Just as there has to be balance with regard to using Slavonic during the Divine Liturgy.

JMTC,
Cathy

You mean about 98% should be in Slavonic, correct?

I agree!

Andrew