www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Anyone catch the Maronite Patriarch on Fr. Pacwa's Show?

I was surprised to see the special on EWTN, it was pretty good. I was dismayed that when asked about married men being ordained, the Patriarch said that it was done in Lebanon but not in the USA because "the Latins won't accept it". Really, who cares? The truth is the Latins could care less, but even if they did why do the Eastern Churches always have to compromise?

We all know this is rubbish and HB has been badly informed, as this is not the case. It is actually quiet an insulting suggestion especially as it reflects on the USA. Hopefully he will not be repeating such trash when he comes to visit my country. Makes my blood boil to hear this. It suggests there is something not quiet right with Americans.

The problem, I believe, is that the Latins will be more than accepting of it and the Latin church is not prepared to move in that direction at this time.

I saw this special and was also dismayed that in Lebanon there is basically a 50/50 split between married and celibate priests. It is sad that the eastern Catholics in the U.S. have to adhere to a different set of guidelines rather than there being a universal or 'catholic' practice with regards to married clergy.

The saddest thing is that the Latins HAVE ORDAINED more married men in the US than they have allowed the Eastern Churches to do. This makes absolutely no sense! If the Latins are "exempting" for their purposes, why don't our bishops have the guts to do the same?!

I think the REAL problem is not the Latins, at least not today, but the lack of willpower of our own leaders.

I am certain that the Patriarch is correct historically, but not necessarily so for the present. Roma would probably not interfere these days if the Maronites push it, although it retains the right to at any time.

My guess is that most of the Curial functionaries that might have objected in the 1980's and 1990's have retired by now. Also most of the Latin bishops in North America probably will not object, even privately.

A bigger problem could be nations like Italy, Ireland and Poland where the Latin bishops might resist more vigorously and complain to Roma loudly. That points up the essential problem, that bishops know a complaint to Roma can make a difference over an issue like this, it has natural tyranny factored into it.

The Patriarch knows also that he has no practical control over his flock outside of Syria and Lebanon. The synod does not actually control the erection of eparchies or the appointment of bishops, and the bishops will be the Curia's men regardless of which ritual church they "belong" to. Their own perception of a pro-celibacy agenda in the Vatican may be all it takes to influence them.

If these bishops do not want or encourage married candidates, they will not have married priests regardless of the opinion of the Patriarch.

Michael

This is why I say Eastern Bishops should ignore the Curia if its own Synod feels like it. Afterall, what is the Curia going to do, excommunicate a Patriarch and the Synod? Not a chance. Can it null the married priests? Nope. Can the Pope? He can't "unpriest" them but maybe limit their ability to function. But will he? I doubt it.

What will the Curia do if the Synod extended its boundaries internationally?

The Head of the Oriental Churches is the (Syriac) Patriarch-Emeritus of Antioch, he probably won't fight the Eastern Synod.

Does anyone know what has become of Father Dennis Beshara?

Fr. Serge

As a Latin, first let me say that I have no problem whatsoever with the Eastern Churches ordaining married men, and truly hope for the day it becomes reality.

Now, that being said, I think the issue is a bit more complex, especially from a pastoral point of view. For instance, as someone above mentioned, when HB suggested that the "Latins woun't accept it", I have a feeling that the statement wasn't referring to Church hierarchy so much as to the laity and perhaps the clergy. As we all know catechesis is woefully lacking today, especially in the West. I'd venture to say that the majority of Latin, or "Roman" Catholics are woefully uninformed about their own Church, let alone the Churches of the East.

Now perhaps this wasn't so much of a problem in the past with East and West being relatively isolated, but today they exist pretty much side by side (even if Latin Catholics don't realize it). I can't help but think of the confusion it might cause (especially in the US), if your average Latin were to discover that other Catholics were ordaining married men to the clergy. Those with an agenda might even use it as leverage in their attemps to relax the celibacy rule in their own Church (let alone adding fuel for the "female ordination" crowd).

It seems to me that these issues must be addressed (and perhaps they are) before the Eastern Churches could comfortably ordain married men in the West. Of course, these are just some personal observations and I could be entirely off base...

Lat Cat--

Welcome to the Forum.

I think that you are right on the money. In the past, the Eastern churches had ordination of married men to the priesthood taken away because it was a REAL scandal to the faithful and US bishops feared it. Today, a married priesthood is not a scandal anymore, but it WOULD give leverage to those who want a married priesthood in the Latin church. And quite honestly, many (Latin) Catholics I know, who are otherwise quite settled and solid in their beliefs and faith, think that a married priest would be a better priest and are not against it. That's what the bishop's have to fear today.

John

It is sad that the eastern Church bows down to the average american Roman Catholic's opinion regarding married clergy rather than hold true to Tradition. Also, celibacy is a beautiful gift of oneself to God, but, when it is forced on someone as a requirement for Orders does it then become a gift or hollow duty? That's why I feel we need both celibate and married clergy. The clergy that then chooses celibacy is truly offering a gift to the Lord without being made to. I'd rather someone surprise me with a birthday present than telling them they 'have' to buy me one. Does this sound reasonable?

I agree wholeheartedly!

The fact that 50% of the Maronite priests in Lebanon are celibate says a lot. Many individuals understand the value of this type of vocation even when it is a voluntary state.

Mt own church (OCA) has a number of celibate priests in parochial work (at least in the diocese I belong to) and these men of God are held in the utmost respect by their congregations.

Ordination of married men has never been a threat to the tradition of a celibate clergy. The two states are each fine callings, and we appreciate all our men of the cloth.

I realize that the presence of married eastern Catholic clergy will be leverage for those Latins who wish to make celibacy optional in their own church. They would be foolish not to use the argument, I could not blame them. But the cat's already out of the bag with almost 100 married Latin priests allowed through the Pastoral Provision (or whatever that is called). The public is hardly scandalized about any of that...a vested priest just doesn't LOOK married, or single! He looks like a man in the service of the Lord.

Michael

What scandal is there is a married man being a priest?

If a Latin is shaken, explain that he was mistaken in his assumption and teach him the Truth instead of treating him as a child.

Why should the Eastern Churches (or even the Latin Church) baby the Latins who are misinformed instead of taking the wool off eyes?

The fact that Easterners were prevented from having their priests is a bigger scandal, and forced many to go elsewhere.

I'm personally sick and tired of Eastern Churches acting as if they are inferior. Do what is best for your own people. Do what is best for the Faith. Do what is best for evangelism. Shielding Latins does nothing for anyone! Pretending our Tradition doesn't allow married men to be priests does no good to anyone!

The Patriarch obviously knows not of what he speaks with regard to the situation of most of the other Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches in the US.

Many years,

Neil

Michael Thoma asks:

Well, in a certain cultural backwater which is best left unnamed, a well-intentioned Greek-Catholic gentleman actually, in all seriousness, asked me how it was possible to speak with approval of the ordination of married men to the priesthood - did I not know that a priest is married to Jesus Christ?!

I responded that I did not know any such thing, nor do I believe it, nor do I find the idea attractive!

Fr. Serge