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"Heaven�s Key to Peace" is a riveting, one-hour documentary which explains how the world can achieve lasting world peace. It will air in the United States Wednesday, December 8, 2004 on PAX TV Network at 11:00 a.m. (Central/Mountain) 12 Noon (Eastern/Pacific) and 11:00 p.m. (Central/Mountain) 12:00 Midnight (Eastern/Pacific) It will air in Canada on Vision TV Saturday, December 4, 2004 at 5:00 p.m. Pacific, 6:00 p.m. Mountain 7:00 p.m. Central, 8:00 p.m. Eastern 9:00 p.m. Atlantic, 9:30 p.m. NFLD and Wednesday, December 8, 2004 at 12 noon Pacific, 1:00 p.m. Mountain 2:00 p.m. Central, 3:00 p.m. Eastern 4:00 p.m. Atlantic, 4:30 p.m. NFLD You can honor Our Lady on The Feast of Her Immaculate Conception (and the 150th Anniversary of the Solemn Proclamation of this Dogma of Catholic Faith) by watching this all-important national TV viewing. If you have cable, please check your local listings for PAX or Vision TV in your area. Call 1-800-263-8160 or visit www.fatima.org [ fatima.org] for more details. If you are watching this on satellite - Direct TV (channel 255) or EchoStar (Dish) (channel 181) then you will see PAX TV at 12 noon Eastern time, 11:00 a.m. Central time, 10:00 a.m. Mountain time and 9:00 a.m. Pacific time. The night program will play on December 8, at 11:00 p.m. Central time, 10:00 p.m. Mountain time, 9:00 p.m. Pacific time and 12 Midnight on the East Coast. Please encourage your friends, family, and neighbors to watch this unique TV program. More on the site http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/112904hktp.asp
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This is sponsored by the organization headed up by Father Nicholas Gruner who, last I recollect, has been suspended a divinis.
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
This is sponsored by the organization headed up by Father Nicholas Gruner who, last I recollect, has been suspended a divinis. Indeed Neil - I have recollections of seeing this too as recently as last week - but of course I can't remember where  It's those grey hairs again I'm now off on the hunt
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So Neil you are telling me this is no good? Just curious.
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Originally posted by Pani Rose:
So Neil you are telling me this is no good? Rose, I don't know what precisely is going to be addressed, but Father Gruner does have an agenda. He actively promotes the idea that the consecration of Russia has not been fulfilled, in contradiction to the Church's stance that it was. In an increasingly violent world that needs the Message of peace given in 1917 by Our Lady of Fatima more than ever before, what a tragedy it is that the Message is being obscured and/or ignored, not only by wayward priests and bishops, but even by some in the Vatican itself. It seems the universal ecumenical movement in the Church today is threatened by the words of the Mother of God who spoke of conversion to the Catholic Faith with conviction.
It�s a rather unsettling sign of the times that a mere handful of laymen and one priest have to try to do what the Church has thus far failed to do � let the world know of the urgent nature of Our Lady�s Message and it�s direct implications for war and peace in the near future. That quote is from a review in The Remnant, a newspaper of the "Loyal Catholic Opposition", as I believe they've been known to describe themselves. Any mission that is being undertaken by a "handful of laymen and one priest" always gives me pause. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Fr. Gruner has been (in many opinions, invalidly) suspended a divinis because his bishop (I think in Canada) relocated him to another diocese in which the bishop refused to incardinate him.
Fr. Gruner's involvement in the Fatima propaganda is very murky and, after reading books about it, I do not think he can be fairly blamed, and I do think the hierarchy of the Church has an agenda.
Just my opinion; don't really care to discuss it. That might sound like a cheap shot kind of way of getting my opinion out without having to "back it up," but I just wanted to share an opposing view without having to go through the stress and time that defending a position demands here on the Forum (which is a good attribute of the Forum, to be sure, but doesn't fit too nicely with my schedule).
Logos Teen
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Hmm - well found part of the stuff for which I was hunting http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFLUCIA.HTM and the next part appears to be from an Issue of the Wanderer http://home.earthlink.net/~grossklas/canon_law_and_gruner_suspension.htm I have to say that I suspect there is plenty to be said on both sides - and we will certainly not know everything about this. My reccommendation - watch the programme with an open mind - and keep the fact that Fr Gruner is suspended in mind Anhelyna
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Dear Friends,
And this group tends to be very anti-Orthodox too (they didn't like the Holy Father returning the Kazan Icon to Russia, for instance).
Alex
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Oh no, not Fr. Groaner again!  Watch out, Our Lady is hiding behind a rock watching you and waiting to nail your behind if you don't support his views. And be sure and wear your scapular in the shower in case you fall and die - I really read that in a fund raising letter from his organization several years ago.
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Dear Charles,
Funny you should say that . . .
It is true, however, that at least one Carmelite source that I have on the scapular recommends that even laity where it to bed.
But I think if I were to do that today, I would choke myself.
I'm a very violent sleeper who wakes up with pillows all scrunched up, limbs pointing in all directions, a black and blue wife beside me . . .
Evil never sleeps, so I continue to struggle with it!
My aunt, by the way is very much into Fr. Gruner, and I've given up trying to say anything to her about the matter.
Alex
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I sleep with my St. Michael the Archangel Medal on every night, even though I'm a violent sleeper and wake up probaby four or five times at night to find myself being choked by the metal chain.  Logos Teen
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Most of you who are speaking against father Grunner do not know what you are talking about. The fact is, Fa. Grunner is probably one of the only TRUE Catholic Priests (and YES he is still a Priest, although many claim he has been ex-comunicated; those who claim this are the ones who are fighting the will of our Lady and not to say Gods will), I pray for this souls. Anyways, some articles do claim he no longer a priest, but I ask you, have you checked with the Vatican. Do so, and don't just take what the enemy throws at you as true without verifying it first. Don't let youreselves be fooled by wolves desquised as lambs. Peace to all.
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I also remember back in the late 80s, I think it was, Fr. Gruner predicted that the Three Days Darkness was coming. All the local conspiracy theorists were taking candles to be blessed. One lady even took a case of candles to church to be blessed. Another crackpot, Fr. Albert Hebert - who never heard of an apparition he didn't believe - had written a book, "The Three Days Darkness" in which he said blessed candles lit by someone in a state of grace (or a child) would be the only light source for the three days. But I did attend a seminar in 1990 where one of the cardinals, whose name escapes me at the moment, said the Fatima consecration had already been done and that Fr. Gruner was deluded. I think Rome's position to this day is that JPII has done the Fatima consecration and the subject is closed. I don't think Fr. Gruner was ever excommunicated, but I do recall he has had some ongoing problems with incardination.
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Dear Jloer (aka Aunt Irene),
No offense, Aunt Irene, but we must always obey the Church.
If Fr. Gruner is as you say, then he should have no problem accepting the Church's decisions.
Or that of Sister Lucia who has formally contradicted him (in an interview with Cardinal Ratzinger).
If the Church says the Consecration is made, who is anyone to say that it is not?
I will call you about our other matter tomorrow.
Alex
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Originally posted by Jloer:
Most of you who are speaking against father Grunner do not know what you are talking about. The fact is, Fa. Grunner is probably one of the only TRUE Catholic Priests (and YES he is still a Priest, although many claim he has been ex-comunicated; those who claim this are the ones who are fighting the will of our Lady and not to say Gods will), I pray for this souls. Anyways, some articles do claim he no longer a priest, but I ask you, have you checked with the Vatican. Do so, and don't just take what the enemy throws at you as true without verifying it first. Don't let youreselves be fooled by wolves desquised as lambs. Peace to all. Jloer I would reccommend that you read my earlier post again http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFLUCIA.HTM
and the next part appears to be from an Issue of the Wanderer
http://home.earthlink.net/~grossklas/canon_law_and_gruner_suspension.htm This is what I have to go on - I can do no other Anhelyna
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