www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, Patriarch of the Ukrainian CC Visit

Officially yes. According to the CCEO a patriarchate cannot be raised without the consent of Rome.

As far as I know, the title 'Major' Archbishop is unique to the Roman Catholic Communion. I have never seen or heard that term used elsewhere.

He does function as the Primate, apparently.

BTW, who was the official Primate of the UGCC during the time of European suppression, the Archbishop of Winnepeg? I am really curious to find out how that was handled.

Michael

First, "Major Archbishop" is a neologism, invented no earlier than the nineteen-thirties and possibly ten years or so later.

Second, the "Major Archbishop" of Trivandrum (Syro-Malandara Church) was enthroned as Catholicos. Cardinal Kasper protested, and the Catholicos wrote back to the effect that Catholicos, Patriarch, and Major Archbishop are simply three different expressions for the same thing, so it's up to the Synod to decide which title to use - and Cardinal Kasper should please butt out of a matter which is no concern of his.

Third, from the death of Metropolitan Andrew in 1944 until his own death in 1984 the chief hierarch of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church was Patriarch Joseph - even in prison or in prison camps he managed to function to a surprising degree. Once he arrived in Rome, his functions increased exponentially. Upon his departure from the USSR (at the summons to Vatican II from Blessed John XXIII) Patriarch Joseph left a locum-tenens in L'viv, in the person of Archbishop Basil (Velychkovskyk); when he in turn was imprisoned, the position of locum-tenens passed to Metropolitan Volodymyr (Sterniuk), who was recognized in this capacity both by the Ukrainian Synod and by the Holy See. Upon returning to Ukraine, Patriarch Myroslav-Ivan of course did not need a locum-tenens any more.

There were some conferences of the diaspora Ukrainian bishops in the nineteen-fifties which continued until Patriarch Joseph arrived in Rome. The chairman was usually Metropolitan Constantine of Philadelphia, but this was not a primatial function.

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father Serge!

Excellent - and Volodymyr Sterniuk was Archbishop and NOT Metropolitan.

He was also my paternal grandmother's first cousin and I had the privilege of meeting him just before his death.

A kindly old man with a captivating smile, he fingered his prayer rope constantly.

He held down several jobs to support himself when the Soviet Union suppressed the UGCC during the pseudo-sobor of 1946 (apparently the ROC will not repudiate this sobor so does this mean the ROC acknowledges that the Soviet army and secret police may legitimately assist in the organizing of sobors?)

Alex

Sorry to contradict - but Vladyko Volodymyr signed his name as Metropolitan, identified himself as Metropolitan, and regularly wore a white klobuk and two encolpia. I was not and am not about to quarrel with a Confessor of the Faith as to his honorific title. If we may speak of Patriarch Joseph, we may speak of Metropolitan Volodymyr!

There has just been a lovely celebration of his life and memory in L'viv, with a nice booklet published (in parallel English and Ukrainian), including my own reminiscences about him.

Just to be ready, I'ld love to have an iconic portrait of him - holding a potato (there is a reason for the potato)!

From the position of the Moscow Patriarchate, one must admit that the Soviet secret police and Soviet army had a legitimate role in organizing sobors! How else were the election of Patriarch Serge, Patriarch Alexis I, Patriarch Pimen, and perhaps even Patriarch Alexis II accomplished? Stalin, who wanted things done "with Bolshevik speed" (his own phrase) had the sobor called to elect Patriarch Serge on FOUR DAYS NOTICE, and this involved springing 15 hierarchs from prisons, labor camps, and similar institutes of health and exercise, not to mention getting them physically to Moscow in a matter of hours. This is all a matter of public record.

Fr. Serge

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH now Father - you simply can't leave it there.

Go on now - tell us - please - pretty please

Why the potato ?

Anhelyna

Patience, patience - all will be revealed!

Fr. Serge

How about we talk about the original treaty of Brest that created the Ukrainian Catholic Church in the first place eh?

I posted this before, so I'll just copy and paste my previous post.

Orthodox Christians in the Ukraine have been victimized by the so called communion with Rome since 1596, on the sad day when the so called Treaty of Brest was signed. First of all, I have to say that most Orthodox Ukrainians were Against this, and the treaty was signed by several Hierarchs backed by a small percentage of Ukrainian Nobility. At the time this nobility wanted estates and title in Poland which by the way had invaded Ukraine. The Catholic Poles were ready and willing to give titles to these Pseudo Hierarchs and the traitorous nobility if only they would accept the Superiority of Rome. The Ultimate plan was the complete Latinisation of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and not one Catholic Cardinal who knows anything about this period of time will tell you different. (Of course if He will be telling the truth). So the UGCC were created on a POLITICAL pretext, it had NOTHING to do with true worship... driven by one sides hunger for Estates and Titles and other sides hunger for Power. This was enforced with the Sword, there were massive repressions against the Orthodox Christians in West Ukraine. Parishes, Monasteries, Holy Icons, and Church Land that were Orthodox for decades were STOLEN!

Moreover the new Greek Catholic Churches in the Ukraine felt the sting of Rome right away. In 1881 a Greek Catholic Magazine published an article. In it the Greek Catholics of Ukraine were complaining of pressure from Rome to do away with Byzantine Liturgy. Their Roman Catholic �brothers� were saying that only fruitful form of Prayer was Latin! In other words the UGCC clergy was considered second class. Soon thereafter Rome began to try and enforce celibacy for priests which was a completely foreign thing to Orthodoxy.

The Greek Catholic Church of Ukraine always existed in Western Ukraine in Lvyv, but in his infinite wisdom the last Catholic Pope decided it was a wonderful idea to move the UGCC Bishop of all Ukraine to Kyiv and give him the title of Patriarch which is completely ridiculous and created the worst rift in recent Orthodox / Roman Catholics relations.

While I have nothing against the Byzantine Rite Catholics as individuals, I think the Churches history of my country shows that it is IMPOSSIBLE to use the Ukrainian Catholic Churches as a point of reconciliation of West and East.

Anyway, I am sorry if I sound a little bitter, but I to want the Western and Eastern Church to reconcile and I for one realize that UGCC coming to Kyiv is NOT the way to go.


I'll end by saying that I AM UKRAINIAN ORTHODOX UNDER the wing of CONSTANTIONOPE, i have NOTHING to do with MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE, and I am all for a CANONICAL UKRAINIAN PATRIARCHATE.

Greek Catholics argue that the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine is essentially a Russian Church, I submit that the Catholic Church in the Ukraine is a POLISH CHURCH which has little to do with history, traditions and beliefs of Christians in our country.

Ukraine was always predominately Orthodox, and that is just how its going to stay with God's Help.

Both Ukraine and even Russia have resisted Latinization for thousands of years and God willing we shall keep resisting it in the face of all adversity.

By the way, fascinating facts have been coming out of Polish Heirarchy dealing directly with the Communists in Poland and Russia and a certain Bishop even having a hand in the murder of a prominent Polish Priest Jerzy Popieluszko who was an anti-communist, so please spare me the Communist stuff.... Catholics were dealing with the Authorities as much as the Orthodox.


Borislav

I won't even attempt to respond to this screed against the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church in all its details. But I will give a few points:

The Union of Brest did not create the Ukrainian Catholic Church - if only because the majority of the hierarchs and dioceses which accepted that Union of Brest were Belarusian.

The Polish government is not my favorite organization, but the credit or blame (take your choice) for the Union of Brest cannot fairly be ascribed to the Polish government - they were not even enthusiastic for the project. They certainly didn't use coercive force - if they had, it would not have taken over a century for L'viv to join up.

A Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarch could be an appealing idea. But it's not available in Ukraine.

Pope John Paul II gave the title of "Patriarch" to the Head of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church? When did this happen?

Might I request a reference for the article in the Greek-Catholic publication of 1881? I collect such materials.

And on, and on. One who wishes to debate these things should at least get the basic facts right.

Fr. Serge

Can the moderator please close this discussion. It serves (at this point) no edification.

Sorry, I have no relatives of importance, and no comments on the motives of the hierarchs and the "Treaty" of Brest in any century. Let's discuss something else please. It is Lent and I am tired and weary.