www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Animals in Heaven?

I just read that Father Deacon DIAK lost his dog of 13 years.

This poses the question do all dogs go to heaven? (My kids have the movies.)

Are there animals in heaven?

St. Thomas Aquinas says no.

St. Bonaventure says yes.

Both are Latin Doctors of the Church.

What does the East say?

I'm pretty (well, 100% positively) sure that the Catholic Church's official position is no.

Logos - Alexis

According to Bishop Kallistos Ware, in The Orthodox Church, page 235, "Christ took flesh - something from the material order - and so has made possible the redemption and metamorphosis of all creation - not merely the immaterial, but the physical" (emphasis by author).

Further, he says that the earth "was created by God, currupted through the fall, but redeemed with us in Christ..." (emphasis added).

The above would seem to at least imply that all nature, all creation -- including our beloved dogs -- will somehow be transformed and made new again in a great cosmic redemption.

My pastor, following reasoning very much like that of Bishop Kallistos, says that there will be animals in heaven. I also think the eschatological imagery from Isaiah 11:6-9 also suggests that creatures in heaven will not be limited to humans and angels.

As far as I know, the East has no official position. The issue, from a Western standpoint, is the type of soul possessed by animals.

My answer to children who ask this question is that we will be pefectly happy in heaven and if that requires us to have our pets, they will be there.

I've lost a number of dogs over the years and would love to have them with me in heaven -- but that's a purely human reaction. Since God is the ultimate love it seems to me that I won't really miss them if they are not there since I will retain their memory.

Fr. Deacon Edward

In January 2005, Michi, my little brother (a tomcat) went to God, he was 17. This subject is interesting.

God is love and truth and light, as says Saint John. Where are the Heavens, there is also light, and the uncreated Light of God anoint any reason and existence.

The animals are children of God, they were created by Him, and they will be in light, by His mercy. How it will be, no one knows. We simply must believe that all the created cosmos will be restored in the new world (Kingdom) which will come. Now this cosmos is in suffering, all the universe is a cry, after the fall.

Long time ago, someone said that all is suffering "sarvam dukkham!", however, we, as Christians, must know that any suffering has a reason.

All for the redemption. May God's will be done now and ever and unto ages of ages! Amin!

M+

www.sacredromania.com [sacredromania.com]

I know htis much, neither the east nor the west has any official posiiton on he topic. I know, as I've depated it elsewhere.Typiclaly, Latins woudl say no, following Aquinas's logic.

However, Aquinas wasnot infallable, and the other reasoning is rather poor.A common argument I hear is "We can eat Animals and not sin, so they must not have eternal souls." I never udnerstood his argument.It basiclaly says that, because this is ht eonly life an ANimal will have, we have he right, by virtue of our immortality, to end their temproary life.

I think Animals will be greted by God, and several, from St. Bonaventure to C.S.Lewis, have agreed, statign that it is consistant with Gods love. And the Scripture doth say all Creation shall be redeemed, after all.

It has always been my ownheld view that Animals have immortal souls, just as Humans possess them, and their souls return to God upon there demise just as Humans, but because htey know no sin, they are nto held acocutnable for any sinful action.

I also think that our personal happiness is nto the isuse.Animals will be with God for heir own sakes, not ours.It was for God, not for man, that all thigns whre made, and for God do the Animals exist, to further show his majesty and praise his GLory, as the Sacred Scriptures say they do even unto this day.

The Indians (Native Americans) have taught me that one must respect animals that we are eating...that we must consume all, not waste anything at all. The animals sacrificed its life so that we could physically live. It would be so sad to waste any meat...toss some in the trash...it's almost as if the animals died in vain. So...let's respect them by consuming all of them.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear Dr Eric,

Certainly, iconic depictions of animals can be found on the walls of Eastern Churches. The "Cosmos" implies the animals.

When my dog, Poncie, died, I actually heard him bark two days later when I stood at the door in the morning which is where he usually stood waiting for me to take him for a walk.

I thought it was just the grief of the whole thing - but I came across a vet who said that he has numerous documented cases of others who experienced the same thing . . . And I wasn't as overcome with grief as my wife since I went through that pain before (at which time I lost the power to speak for two days).

So Aquinas didn't believe animals go to heaven?

Hmmm . . . I knew there was something about him I didn't like . . .

And didn't St Bonaventure call Aquinas the "Father of all heretics?"

I need to contact Apotheoun right away . . .

Alex

I have always wondered about the subject of animals in Heaven, if so, I expect to see our family cat Puddles , our Alsatians: Caesar (he had a rough life), Champ (a.k.a. Mr. Moose), Sheba, and Lena (a.k.a. Donkey Ears). my hamsters: Daryl MonkeyMouse, Crystal, Alvin, Rudy (sneaky little cuss, but I can forgive him), Regina, Caesar Penguin, Corky, Tristan, Isolde, Leo, and maybe, I said MAYBE even Cindy who was psycho and kept eating her babies and tore apart Daryl's ears.
on a more serious vein, I recall the story of the little boy who had lost his puppy, and went to the Priest for advice. the boy asked if he would see his puppy in Heaven, the Priest answered that if that would make the boy happy when he was in Heaven, then Jesus would see to it that he got his puppy back.
Much Love,
Jonn

I understand the love of animals here, but they are of the world and when we are to be in Heaven, then it is all about God and nothing else. Not about aunt sally or uncle joe who died 20 years ago and are waiting for you, blah blah blah.

That is the biggest hurdle for a human to get over. You have to realize this world is just that, materialistic things. Heaven is going to be so much greater than that.

Now I am giulty of telling kids that when they go to heaven there will be flowers and fuzzy bunnies and such, but reality is that it is going to make us more happy than any of of this world can.

I personally am not an animal lover here, so I speak from a biased view, but as an adult, you have to refocus your expectations IMHO.

Again, I think you have to look at God's glory a bit more mature at our age and give God a bit more credit. I know I won't care if I am standing next to St Stephen himself. I will be completely in awe lookig upon God and singing to him Holy Holy Holy!! for eternity!

Love them, adore them and be all you can be with them here. But I can't believe anything or anybody here on earth is needed in heaven.

Dear Stivvy,

I think you are missing out on something quite central to our experience of heaven - the fact that our love of God and our love of neighbour will no longer have any tension and that it will somehow be directed in one and the same way.

The Eastern Church denies that we will be able to see God as He is in Heaven. That will always be beyond our ability to comprehend. But we will see Christ in Glory and with Him the Theotokos, the Saints and glorified, saved humanity and the Cosmos.

Your notion that the Saints, our family, relatives and others will have no part to play in our Glorification and experience of the Divine Glory is good Protestantism only!

Alex

Dear John,

There is a story about a honeybee, based, of course, on a legend, that I used to read each year during Lent and whenever I read it I cried. I once read it eight times straight out loud for classes - and I cried each and every time at the end.

During the Crucifixion, the story went, a honeybee lodged itself on the Cross of our Lord.

When the skies darkened and the winds picked up, the bee began to read these signs of nature as indicating that something terrible and unnatural was going on, yet it couldn't quite make out what and why.

The bee wanted to fly away and hide in its nest, but there was no rain, so it didn't.

After a while, the bee came to the conclusion that the Man on the Cross was none other than God Himself, her own Creator.

As the soldier raised his lance to pierce the Side of Christ, he jerked sharply grabbing something from under his arm yelling, "Damned insect!" With that he threw the bee to the ground and crushed it under his foot. The bee had attacked the soldier in defence of Christ . . .

On Easter Sunday, the myrrh-bearing women were hurrying from the Tomb to see the Disciples and talked amongst themselves.

"Did you see how glorious He looked?"

"And the Light that shone from His Face?"

"What about that beautiful brooch that He had on His Chest?"

"Oh," said another. "That was no brooch - that was a very lovely . . . bee!"

See y'a!

Alex

Jonn,

What a coincidence! I also have an Alsatian named Caesar! He's about eight years old now, and his hip dysplasia is pretty bad. He's never been the the type of dog to run around freely, really, because of the presence of a bit of pain on that account.

Anyway, I know it's a lovely thought to want our animals (and loved ones) in Heaven with us, but it seems to me that this is a purely human reaction.

If my time in Heaven (should I, by the grace and mercy of God, ever get there) is spent worshipping the Triune God, then it matters not to me whether my mother or father or children or pets or there; they won't be getting my attention, or me theirs.

Of course, I want my loved ones to go to Heaven because now, in this life, the thought of them being shut away from God is very upsetting, when I (theoretically) get to Heaven, it seems only logical that that would change. There's no sadness or longing in Heaven, only joyful worship of the Holy Trinity. Therefore, in Heaven I will not [be able to] be sad or anguished about the absence of my family or pets.

That makes sense, right? I don't see how it does make sense to say we will "miss" our relatives in Heaven or "be upset" that they are not there, apart from a Christian desire that all souls reach Heaven.

Logos - Alexis

It's kinda funny, don't you all think, that we can "discuss" our churches, rubrics, polemics, etc. until our faces turn blue, but when it comes right down to it, in the end, none of us knows "exactly" what to expect or what will happen. We can only hope we are on the right course and heading in the right direction.

I have been fortunate to have been at the bedsides of a few faithful family members who were prepared to go and words can't describe the solemn beauty and peace of their passing.

God be glorified!,
Bill