www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy What Does Uzhhorod Think of the RDL ?

Many have asked what OCA and ACROD think of the Revised Divine Liturgy.

But I'm wondering if there has been any reaction from our brothers in Uzhhorod about the textual revisions and the music?

Any comment from Lviv ?

L'viv (or more precisely, Kyiv-Halych): the Synod recently issued a statement reminding everyone of the obligation to serve according to the Ordo Celebrationis. As to abbreviations, everyone is at liberty to serve the complete Divine Liturgy - and this is commonly done - but the abbreviations authorized by the Fourth Synod in Patriarch Joseph's time are permitted, although not required (I use those abbreviations myself - once a year).

I'm unaware of anyone in the Church of Kyiv-Halych getting particularly involved in the discussion of what the revised Liturgy of the Pittsburgh Metropolia does with/to Protopinije; I myself prefer to leave that aspect of the matter to those who actually use that chant regularly and whose expertise on it is greater than mine.

Incidentally, the Church of Kyiv-Halych does not forbid the use of Church-Slavonic, and encourages the daughter Churches in diaspora to make some use of the local languages; Patriarch Lubomyr stressed this point in a recent visit to the USA.

Christ is Risen!

Fr. Serge

I don't think they care. In the Prjashev Eparchy, they now force the use of the literary Slovak in the liturgy and it really corrupts the original Prostopinije music. When I visited Prjashev or Kosice Greek Catholic parishes, I made sure I attended the Church Slavonic liturgies becaue I knew I could sing along. I don't know what goes on in Apostolic Administrator Shasik's Mukachevo Eparchy, but I know they use Ukrainian in all Eparchial newspapers and correspondence. When in Uzhorod, I attended liturgies in Orthodox Churches and they still use both the Church Slavonic and Prostopinije in their litugies.

Ungcsertezs

The Mukachevo Greek Catholic Eparchy is probably more interested in figuring out how to sing Prostopinije in Ukrainian:

http://www.mgce.uz.ua/ukr/news.php?id=20

Dave

Nice web-site; thanks! It seems that in many parishes in Transcarpathia the Divine Liturgy and other services remain in Church-Slavonic except for Scripture readings and sermons. But gradually the vernacular language (yes, that does mean Ukrainian) is making progress, which presumably means that Prostopinije is being adapted to it.

Fr. Serge

What is the common spoken language of Rusyn people in Eastern Slovakia and Western Ukraine?

Aside from the issue of having a distinct Rusyn identity subsumed in to a another one, is there a problem with Prostopinije being sung in Ukrainian or Slovak?

Yes, Prostopinije was notated according to Church Slavonic which has longer syallables and words than literary Slovak and Ukrainian. The muisc won't sound the same, just as the English Prostopinije never sounds like the Church Slavonic original.

Xpucmoc Bockpece!

Ungcsertezs

Dear Ungcsertezs,

That's one reason to find a balance between fiercely abbreviating the melodies (as was done in the 1960's) and singing every note, even if that means repeating English words and phrases over and over (as was done by OTHER cantors in the 1960's ).

When I started using the Matins canons before Liturgy at a previous parish (with the blessing of Metropolitans Judson and Nicholas), many many times I had older parishioners come up and tell me that they REMEMBERED the irmos melodies (and sometimes began singing the English texts to them the next week). So it is possible, with work, to keep the particular genius of a chant form like prostopinije in a modern language.

Voistinnu voskhrese!

Jeff

It's worth-while to remember that Church-Slavonic is not the original language of the printed Prostopinije; it first appeared in Hungarian.

Fr. Serge

But the parishes were singing in Church Slavonic, whether you transcribe it using Cyrillic characters or the Magyarized Latin characters. The truly Magyarized Rusyn Greek Catholics introduced the use of the Magyar language without Apostolic approval.

Ungcsertezs

They did indeed use an adaptation of Magyar phonetics for a time. But after a while, modified Slovak phonetics became stylish. This has nothing to do with either music or the Revised Divine Liturgy, and precious little to do with present-day Uzhhorod.

Fr. Serge

Ung...

Please explain...my understanding is in the East we utilize the language of the people...like Sts. Cyril & Methodious did...(as opposed to the Latins who required Latin to be utilized up until Vatican II) I don't understand what approval was necessary...

Chris

There's a whole chapter on the comedy of errors regarding the use of Hungarian in Cyril Korolevsky's book Living Languages in Catholic Worship. The whole book is well worth reading, but this chapter is hilarious.

Christ is Risen!

Fr. Serge

I can only imagine...being that I don't know if there is a hungarian word less than 5 syllables

Job,

At the turn of the century (1900), over 90% percent of the Mukachevo Eparchy claimed a East Slavic(Rusyn) identity. In fact, Bishop Julius Firczak always defended the Slavic heritage of his Eparchy, even though the Hungarian government was forcing a Magyar culture on every citizen of Hungary. Those Rusyns (clergy and people) who accepted the Magyarization were the instigators in replacing the the Church Slavonic language in the Divine Liturgy. Rome did not approve of the introduction of Hungarian as a liturgical language. The Magyarized Ruysn Greek Catholics did it anyway and this led to the creation of seperate Hungarian Greek Catholic parishes which were in fact former Rusyn Greek Catholics parishes. So this use of a "vernacular" wasn't an organic development, merely a result of political ethnic assimilation.

Foldamatt Krisztus!

Ungcsertezs (MagyarOrosz)