www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Farewell to my brethren

Now you loose sight of that foundational truth over some "loss of peace" and you'll be off the path so far and so fast that it will take an act of God to get you back. Nobody has an inherent right to feel good on the Way of Perfection.

You may take that to the spiritual bank.

we joke (and sometimes not joke) about Latins who "flee Rome" going to the BCC to avoid the Novus Ordo; but those of us who "flee Rome" to avoid the RDL are no different.

Please don't think I'm pointing fingers at anyone, I just wanted to share my opinion on this. I've posted the same before if you look through my posts. It just hits a little closer to home now that I'm also leaving the BCC; though I look at it positively as "I'm joining the Holy Orthodox Church."

His Eminence is NOT Greek! He is, however, a scholar that knows Greek very well. I believe his point was that in Greek there is one word, and it suffices. In English there are many different words to correspond to that one word, but each is slightly different than the other. This happens with any translations between ANY languages.

"For this reason a man (anthropos) shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church; 33 however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Whenever I recite the English, (and because I don't like to follow texts), I end up in a cacophany of error. I learned it one way, as a child, and that is the way I like it and that is the way I generally recite it. However, over the years, my archdiocese has issued atleast three different translational versions, and they are often used at random by different churches. ARGH!

This generally doesn't bother us too much though, because in my Archdioces' Church, we are just SO happy to hear *anything* in English

I understand the matter of translation (not for the Creed, but in Liturgy) also involves the amount of syllables of a particular translated word which will fit in with the liturgical music.

To his Church, he has the relationship of bridegroom to bride. It is that relationship to which the mystery of marriage refers. It is the mystery of marriage which modernity rejects. Modernity does not recognize that our bodies reflect the Truth about Jesus Christ and His Church. To the extent that the revisionists have purposefully tinkered with the Creed, they have missed the point of the foundational sacrament and mystery, that is the sacrament and mystery which was "In the beginning." To the extent that the revisionists have haphazzardly tinkered with the Creed, they have unwittingly rejected the truth about marriage and the reason God made man, male and female.

Anyway, my point was: don't be so hard on Bishop Kallistos Ware. I am sure that a man of his distinguished background has good reason to say what he does. He is a living saint, much like the Pope and the previous Pope, who does not have it in his soul or heart to belittle anyone or anything.

Whenever I recite the English, (and because I don't like to follow texts), I end up in a cacophany of error. I learned it one way, as a child, and that is the way I like it and that is the way I generally recite it. However, over the years, my archdiocese has issued atleast three different translational versions, and they are often used at random by different churches. ARGH!

I will try to bring back home the newest 'official' Greek Archdiocesse version on Sunday if Father Anthony doesn't answer.

My loss of peace is no trivial matter. It is not about "feeling good"--it is about "not being angry at the revisionists every time I say the Creed". I respect your opinion Mary. Plain and simple, I will not, and cannot bear to be angry every time I recite the Creed. It is not fair to my wife or child---or myself. And I cannot help the feelings of anger. So if I can be in an Apostolic Church which has not tampered with the Creed or infected the Liturgy with worldly poison, then that is where I must be.

That is all.

Recluse

So far many of you, including Father Tom, are missing something vital to your salvation here.

I don't want to pick anyone out for censure, but I make an exception for Father Tom since I think he, as a priest, should be more careful with his words and ideas.

There has been a tendency throughout the Church and exemplified in the desert fathers that you remain in obedience to legitimate authority in all things but sin.

So that one should never so easily speak of hopping from one spiritual father to another, one parish to another, one jurisdiction to another, one Church to another, as in the case of moving from Orthodoxy to the Catholic Church or the other way around.

Moving from one thing to another so as to feel better, or because we have decided that something is flawed beyond repair in the Body, is all taken rather matter of factly in some of the posts here. Why, any reasonable person could hardly disagree. So I suppose you could number me among the unreasonable <smile>.

WE do not make the Church holy, even though Father Loya says we do. The Church says that the Body of Christ is holy. The Body of Chist is holy and we participate as members of the Body in humble obedience through faith, in hope, with charity.

Now you loose sight of that foundational truth over some "loss of peace" and you'll be off the path so far and so fast that it will take an act of God to get you back. Nobody has an inherent right to feel good on the Way of Perfection.

You may take that to the spiritual bank.

Mary

If I thought your loss of peace was trivial I would not be speaking to you at all about such things. It is quite high handed of me to intervene or interfere as much as I have thus far, so I must think there is good reason to express a caution. I must believe beyond all public posturing or positioning that you are in some danger of personal error.

You need to ask yourself if it is right to break communion with the Church of your Baptism over an uncontrolled passion, which is what your anger is by your own admission.

Do you really and honestly believe that any Church is going to "cure" you of anger which you refuse to get under control on your own?

Your departure should demonstrate far more control than you are exhibiting at the moment. If you cannot gain custody over the passion of anger here, you can't do it there, unless you have determined that you are in an un-holy Church, and must move to a place that is holy so that you may become holy. But that is not what you have been saying here.

There is a serious spiritual disconnect in your being at the moment. I think it is important and so I will point to it. The rest is your's.

Blessings always,

Mary