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I am considering visiting an Antiochian Orthodox Church. Is there anyone on this forum who is a member of this Church? If so, can you give me any information or tell me what to expect?

Thank you in advance.


Recluse

I'm not a member, but I've been to them. They use Byzantine Chant. Otherwise, I never noticed much of a difference. A friendly bunch, too. Ah, but I was at the Cathedral in Oakland (Pittsburgh) and the whole congregation knelt at the epiclesis. That was odd to me.

It very much depends on the parish. Domilesean is right that they use Byzantine chant and the "Greek" usage in general.

In the vast majority of parishes, the priest's prayers (including part of the Anaphora) is silent, as opposed to some Slavic traditions that allow these to be read aloud. The congregation's responses may be in multiple languages, even in "convert" parishes: Arabic (could be quite a bit, but often in response to a litany and also as one of the three prayers during "Holy God"), Greek and occasionally Slavonic (usually limited to "Gospodi pomullui" in response to a litany). The more established parishes (such as you're likely to find in PA) typically have pews; a few may still have organs.

Many Antiochian churches of whatever legacy have a large population of "converts," who will be most welcoming; and the "cradle/ethnic" parishes also tend to be warm to visitors, as they've become accustomed to non-Arabs/Greeks/Slavs investigating their Church.

I hope you'll enjoy the visit!

-----
Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Thank you very much.
Do they have an iconostasis?

Kneeling at the Epiclesis is a standard Greek practice.

Dn. Robert

Generally they follow Greek practice, but you will see some variations. I believe this in part goes back to their preference for the Hapgood English translation of the Russian service book and their initial status under the Russian missionary bishops in this country (they were called Syrian Orthodox then). They continue to use the Hapgood style sacral English in their texts.

In parishes that see themselves as being "Pan Orthodox", i.e. not aligned with any one ethnic group and containing lots of converts, you will also see a variety of traditions practiced drawn from multiple sources. One example I have seen is true Byzantine chant is actually a rarity. What is more common from what I have seen is mutli part harmonized chant with Byzantine tones, using whatever setting the choir director (i.e. not a chanter) prefers. I have heard some of the really complex stuff like Bortniansky and Kedrov for instance.

Antiochian parishes that have a fuller set of services, will separate vespers and orthros and do them on their own. Again, that's from what I've seen. They also prefer the Greek style open iconostasis and not the Russian style top to bottom with liturgical curtain. In the parishes I've visited the priests prayers including the anaphora were recited aloud. Also there was no kneeling on Sundays aside from the few appointed times when that is supposed to occur in the parishes I've been in.

Like any parish a lot can vary based on the priest and/or deacon. I do believe there tends to be a distinct difference in parishes or missions led by convert clergy in terms of practice.

Andrew,

the pan-Orthodox, "high convert", parish is very much like the two Antiochian parishes that we attend. Our parish is very small, but the parish in Atlanta is very large. Both parishes use a mix of byzantine chant and polyphony. We are very ecclectic.

Joe

Since we are on the subject of Antiochian Churches, here is my parish's website. St. Catherine Orthodox Church
http://www.stcatherineaiken.org/

Here is the Church we attend in Atlanta, when we go there;
St. Elias
www.steliasofatlanta.org [steliasofatlanta.org]

Here is our former Melkite parish in Augusta, GA
St. Ignatios of Antioch
http://www.melkite.net/

And we were members of St. George's Melkite Church for a long time when we lived in Milwaukee;
http://www.melkite.org/georgehome.htm

There is even a picture of me serving at St. George's; carrying the cross in procession. We were out of town the day they took photos at St. Ignatios.

Joe

Joe,

I visit St. John Chrysostom's Melkite occasionally, just down the road from St. Elias' on Ponce as you well know. Have you been to St. John's much?

I've never been to St. Elias'; how does it compare to St. John's? The only Antiochian Orthodox temple I've visited here was St....Stephen's? in Hiram a couple of years ago.

Alexis

P.S. If you ever swing by Athens one weekend, we could go to St. Philothea GOA here! I went about a year and a half ago, but haven't been back (you know how busy we college kids are, ;)). The liturgy, I felt, was really poor, but the (convert) priest and his (Greek) wife could not have been nicer and more welcoming.

Alexis

Alexis,

Sounds good. By the way, I just applied for a job in Athens so who knows, if we move there we'll have you over for dinner

It has been some time since I've been to St. John Chrysostom but I like Father John Aleazar (sp?) very much. They did a significant amount of the Liturgy in Arabic I seem to remember and the choir was up front near the iconostasis. They were pretty good.

St. Elias is huge, much larger than St. John Chrysostom. The Liturgy is gorgeous. The choir is outstanding. The choir is in the back, most of the Liturgy is sung by priest, deacon, and choir, slavonic style but in English. I think that they have some Greek and Russian families. Almost all of the Liturgy is in English. Archimandrite Michael is a great liturgist and homilist. I once went to confession to him. He seems to be a very holy and mature man.

I still want to go to a traditional Tridentine Mass, so I hope that we will get to do that before too long.

Joe

...That's Father John Azar at SJC Melkite in Atlanta... Nice guy - young, enthusiastic!

That's right, Father Azar. I like Father Azar very much!

Joe

Joe,

Well, I'll have to go to St. Elias' some time! Maybe tomorrow! But I really dislike Slavonic chant.

As far as TLMs go, St. Francis de Sales (FSSP) is about fifteen minutes west of the city. Solemn High Mass every Sunday and major feast day. St. Michael's is run by the SSPX and is in Roswell. It has no deacon (boo - that's wrong on a bunch of levels), but has a very nice Sung High Mass every Sunday and feast day.

Alexis

P.S. What job did you apply for in Athens?

I went to St. Elias' today, and it was just my luck that (Arch?)
Bishop Saba of a southern Syrian Diocese was visiting and was the celebrant of the Hierarchical Divine Liturgy!

I do have a question about Byzantine practice, though. In any given liturgy for a feast I've ever seen, there seems to be no "color code" as there is in the Roman Church. For example, today the hierarch wore gold/yellow vestments, the priest wore white, the deacon wore gold (of a different pattern), one acolyte wore blue, and the other little-boy-acolytes wore varying designs of white and gold.

What's with the mismatched color scheme?

Alexis