www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Holy Father wishes for a return to Latin... what about Slavonic?

This is indeed a tragedy for your church in the USA. It sounds as if your bishops are destroying your heritage and driving people out of the church. For what reason? Where are the people who were born into the faith supposed to go to worship?

ЈА НЕ ВОЛИМ СТАРО СЛОВЕНСКИ У ЛИТУРГИЈИ...I TRULY AM AGAINST THE STARO SLOVANSKI IN THE LITURGY,,,PREFER JUST PLANE SERBIAN...NEVER LEARNED ANYTHING EVEN AS A ALTAR BOY WITH THE OLD SLOVANIC...DUE TO THE MANY MANY RUSS/UKRAINIAN HARD AND A LOTS OF SOFT SOUNDS,,PLUSS THE LONGER RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN ALPHABET..



ПРЕСВЕТА БОГОРОДИЦА СПАСИ НАС,,,,,,,

The Russian/Ukrainian alphabet? Excuse me, but there is no such alphabet and has not been within living memory. Russian and Ukrainian each have their own alphabets. So does Serbian, for that matter. And so does Church-Slavonic (which is part of the larger problem - in order to read Church-Slavonic, one must learn the alphabet for it, which might take a day or so for a person of average intelligence, but then one discovers that each national or ethnic group which uses Church-Slavonic pronounces that language as if it were the modern language of the national or ethnic group in question. Still, it's a fun language.

Fr. Serge

This reminds of hearing the same Latin passage pronounced three different ways by an Italian, a Frenchman, and a German!

please point out the differences in the alphabets ..russian/ukrainian/bulgarian...and staro slovenski..from what i understand ..the old slovonic used to be a southern balkan version,,now its more a russian/ukrainian version....as far as i know the macadonians may use the serbian cirillica ....though the macadonian is a southern bulgarian language.........




ГОСПОДЕ ИСУС ХРИСТОС ОПРОСТИ ГРЕКЕ НАШЕ .,,ИМЕНА ТВОГА РАДИ

CONT-I know that russian and ukrainian language is different..but you share with the bulgarians the one russian alphabet ,,,like it or not it is fact..,,,but the pravoslavni [orthodox] dont seem to mind if it is called the russian alphabet thats the ukrainians that i know......





молитве твоје свете мајке...господе спаси нас.....

What about the various Orthodox Churches in Ukraine? I assume that all UOC-MP services are in Church Slavonic (perhaps I'm mistaken?), but I don't know which language UOC-KP and UAOC services are in.

Miroslav,

Try looking up each language on Wikipedia [en.wikipedia.org]. Each entry includes the respective alphabet.

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Ребята, давайте жить дружно.

From the Orthodox perspective, while in Iraq I got to know several military chaplains from the OCA who neither knew Slavonic, Romanian or any other classical liturgical languages (didn't ask about Greek or Latin). Both happened to be "converts" from the RC or GC backgrounds. i asked about the seminary and if it was still mandatory to study and learn/know at least on to the traditional liturgical or national languages and was told this was no longer mandatory.

father Serge keleher..are you a eastern catholic priest or a orthodox priest.....if eastern catholic this answer is to be expected ....serbian has only thirty оne letters in its alphebet..so it can be considered its own alphebet......stanislav ,живела босна и сербија,,,

I had no idea that the distinguishing of one alphabet from another is determined by one's religious affiliation. Does the same apply, for example, to the rules of punctuation, grammar, and syntax?

Fr. Serge

all of the Cyrillic writing countrys are predominantly orthodox so yes,,a very small minority are eastern catholic,very tiny..i type with one finger only so bare with me ..stanislav мир божи..

When Old Slavonic was more of a southern dialect, Slavic had not yet divided into distinct languages in any thorough way. Slavonic does not show the distinctive features of the Balkan sprachbund, and it certainly does not show such distinctive features of modern Bulgarian and Macedonian as the loss of noun case inflexions. There were national recensions of Slavonic, showing some features of the local vernacular, at the beginning of the seventeenth century, but none of them had lost the infinitive, or adopted a postpositive article, &c. Meletii Smotryts'kyj produced a Slavonic grammar embodying various changes to bring it a bit more in line with the vernacular; he had in mind only East Slavic, but wanted a pan-East Slavic recension that would be acceptable to Russians, Ukrainians, and Bielarusians. The Smotrytskian recension provided the standard for books produced by the Nikonian "reform," and as these books were printed in great numbers and exported throughout the Slavic Orthodox world, this form of Slavonic supplanted the national recensions, which except for the small printery at Cetinje, Macedonia, were available only in manuscript. A partial exception was the area then ruled by Poland and Hungary, where there were numerous presses that produced church books in Slavonic. "Creeping Nikonianism" over the intervening centuries has brought the books of this area into conformity with Nikonian standards, but still not entirely. The Old Believers stick with the "Joseph's text," which in grammar and orthography is not markedly different from the Nikonian books but contains many different readings.

Macedonian has its own version of the Cyrillic alphabet, not identical with either the Serbian or the Bulgarian Cyrillic.

Stephen

More on alphabets and religions - China has several religions. When attempting to write Chinese in the Roman alphabet, do the believers of one set of religions use pin-yin, while believers in other religions remain loyal to Wade-Giles?

Fr. Serge

Does the UOC-MP still follow a "Church Slavonic" only policy?