www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Altar server's body posture?

Is there a exactly body posture to altar servers? I have read that it was with each arm straight in its side, but a priest said me it is optional.

Some cultures find resting with one's hands clasped in front or behind to be casual and inappropriate for Liturgy. I have heard of people who stood with their hands behind their backs being smacked by older ladies in the parish who proceed to give quite the tongue-lashing over the person's disrespect to the Lord.

Because of this, standing with one's hands to the side is a sure way of not giving offense. It is optional and only carries with it the weight given to it by the local culture and custom.

I wonder if the older ladies in the parish thought about the offense they gave to the Lord by their own sinful conduct, as well as to the person they smacked, who might, as a result of being assaulted, never come to church again. It would not seem so. People need to realize that such standards really are culturally conditioned and the reason why someone may not stand with arms to the side probably has nothing whatsoever with not showing respect to the Lord. For example, I cannot stand for extended periods of time without moving my arms to some other position. If I keep them to my side the entire time, I get excruciating pain in my left shoulder because of an old injury, and crossing my arms across my chest or clasping my hands together in front of my body provides some relief.

Ryan

:::applause:::

Well said !!!

-- John

Thank you for the answers!

And the beautiful latin's posture of having the hands united in a "praying" attitude is wrong in the byzantine rite?

My pastors instructed the altar servers to serve with their arms folded as is you would when you receive Communion.

The liturgical texts used in the Melkite seminaries (compiled late 1800s) recommends two postures--and heartily recommends against arms hanging by one's sides. The two postures are: (i) when not processing, standing with the right hand holding the left forearm (similar to the way a priest holds his hands under his phelonion when he is walking in the Little Entrance; and (ii) when processing and not carrying anything, have your right hand placed over the heart and your left forming a cross over it (as when approaching for communion). All our older photographs of liturgies show these postures.

In the churches I've seen in Australia, the servers generally use the postures taught in schools for procession or standing at formal occasions: arms by one's sides, but not swinging, or handly loosely clasped in front. These are the postures we reinforce when training our servers, as they are readily understood, and already form part of the culture for formal occasions.

It was a long time ago (the mid 60's to mid 70's) but when I was an altar boy we usually stood with our hands clasped in prayer. Unless we were holding the kadilla (the incensor) or the bells or holding something for the priest. If we knelt, we were to clasp our hands in prayer as well. Just seems to make sense to me. But then, we also never showed up for church in jeans (let alone torn jeans) or t-shirts (let alone dirty and torn t-shirts) or sandals or tennis shoes. And I served DL six days a week!

Even though the servers are wearing a dalmatica, one can still see the torn and ripped bottom of the jeans, the ripped tennis shoes and the hair that looks as if someone put their finger in a light socket. I can guarantee my nine year old NEVER dresses that way in church. Whether he is serving or not. NO jeans, NO t-shirts, NO sneakers. I know God loves him no matter how he dresses, but it still won't happen.

Tim

I 've only witnessed someone correcting another person's posture or deportment during a service twice. Both times the self appointed "correcter" caused more of a disturbance (and IMHO showed more disrespct to the Liturgy) then person being corrected.

I have been told that Old Believers often stand with crossed arms as before communion. I have also seen something done by Orthodox servers I find interesting (mostly by Serbs); standing with the left hand behind the back and the right hand at the side ready for various cross making etc (and at one point holding a candle one handed, the left staying firmly lodged in position). Personally I prefer the crossed arms, but have been told off for that after liturgy, so I go for hands at sides.

Ned

Dear Matta, is that position like this? http://br.geocities.com/phik_lippe/posture.JPG

Philippe,

the left forearm is held horizontal, i.e., parallel to the ground. The hand near enough to the middle of the chest. The right hand then holds the left forearm. This means that both forearms make a line.

I believe Steve Petach posted a picture of that which is described here.

Note the gentleman in the front left in khaki pants and a white shirt standing with his hands as Matta describes.

Dear Matta, thank you. Now I understood. I reminded another position of the priests; having his hands over the phelonion they cross their hand's fingers in the middle of the chest, usual in the homily. Is it an 'official' position?

I don't think so, dear Wondering. Read again the description of Matta.

Philippe,

You are right. I didn't re-read before posting and must have thought of your drawing, which was quite good.