www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall How to make the sign of the cross.....

As one moves through the Sign, one recites, at the forehead, "Lord "; at the stomach, "Jesus Christ", on the right shoulder, "Son of God"; and on the left shoulder, "have mercy on us" followed by a bow(to the ground during great lent).

Joining two fingers together-the index and the middle finger-and extending them, with the middle finger slightly bent, represents the two natures of Christ: His Divinity and His Humanity. He is God according to His divinity and Man according to His hummanity, perfect in both natures. The index finger represents His divinity, while the middle finger repersents His hummanity, since He came down from on high and saved those below. The bending of the middle finger is interperted to mean that He bowed the heavens and came down upon the earth for our salvation.

And thus it proper to make the Sign of the Cross and to bless; thus was it laid down and ordained by the holy fathers; such is the power of the Sign of the Cross, with which we faithful sign ourselves when we pray, confessing sacramentally the Saviour's economy: His being begotten of God the Father before all creation; His decent to earth from on high; His Crucifixion; and His second coming, which is the sealing of His entire philanthropic dipensation concerning us.

The sign of the cross must be made according to the rules, in the form of a cross; and the right hand, that is, the dextral hand, must be used in crossing oneself, with the thumb and the two lower fingers joined together, and the extended index finger joined to the middle finger, slightly bent; thus should prelates [and] priests give their blessing and thus should men cross themselves. . . . It befits all Orthodox Christians to hold their hand thus, and to make the sign of the cross upon their face with two fingers, and to bow, as we said before. If anyone should fail to give his blessing with two fingers, as Christ did, or should fail to make the sign of the cross with two fingers, may he be accursed.. . ., Chapter 31 of The Council Of The Hundred Chapters.

Jacob,

Welcome to byzcath.org. Please feel free to share the customs and traditions of the Old Believers with us here. However, please be forewarned, any post decrying either the Catholic or Orthodox Churches as heretical will be immediately deleted and you will risk suspension or banning.

Fr. Deacon Lance

You know, I was going to start a thread about this topic but forgot what it was until I read this. Thanks for starting this thread.

I understand that going to the right shoulder first the the way EC's and Orthodox as well as Old Believers do it and always have. I also understand that everyone used to make the sign of the cross this way--until it changed and went the opposite way for RC's and Protestants. I have heard one reason that I won't bother to get into right away. But I would appreciate it if anyone else has heard reasons why it switched to the left shoulder first. And more importanly, when did it switch? A date would be nice.

It is my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there is a missal dating to the 1200's from York England that shows in pictures how to make the sign of the cross--and it clearly shows the right shoulder first. I understand it was to teach novices at a convent who were illiterate how to do things.

Corrections or additions, please?

Tim
ps--welcome to the board!

As far as I know the Copts, Ethiopians and Eritreans make the signum crucis the same way we (Latins) do.

Further:

(1) I think there is no solid evidence that the Sign of the Cross originated in the East. But Church historians say that it was practised by early Christians in the 2nd century.

(2) An older forn of signage is for the faithful to trace 3 crosses on the forehead, on the lips, and above the heart as the Gospel is ready to be proclaimed. According to recorded Church history, this was practised by the Apostles themselves and by the first converts to Christinaity. Only the Latins have retained this signage and practise it up to this day.

(3) The left to right shoulder movement might be an older form than the right to left shoulder. I think all the Orientals(Armenians, Copts, Ethiopians, etc.), both Catholic and Orthodox, make the sign of the cross like we, Latins, do: from left to right.

(4) The 3-finger manner of crossing came later as a development, which the Byzantines up to this day use.

I have heard the two finger sign originated during the early battles over the natures of Christ. Later, it was replaced by the three finger cross because anti-trinitarian heresies had become more significant and widespread.

I was taught that we are to use three fingers (thumb and first two fingers together) to represent the Holy Trinity and the other two fingers are to be folded under and represent the dual nature of Christ. Of course, I was educated during the latinization period of Bishop Elko in the early 1960's. Our church had no iconostasis at that time but we had a confessional box and stations of the cross. Both are gone now and the iconostatis is back!

As far as making three crosses as one of the other posters mentioned, I was taught by my father to do that before the Gospel. It could also be used when the Deacon is incensing the congregation. I was told to make the sign of the cross three times on my forehead, three times on my lips and three times on my heart. Once for each member of the Holy Trinity. Instead of using three fingers with two tucked under, we used our thumb only with the other fingers tucked under when making the "smal sign of the cross" as it was called. And we were supposed to make the sign of the cross whenever the priest or Deacon did, as well as when the "Father, Son and the Holy Spirit" were mentioned. And, of course, when it said in the liturgy books.

And we could make the sign of the cross three times, doing a deep bow--the Mytania. Of course, we never genuflected, we did the Mytania entering the church, befor entering the pew, before kissing the icon or a hand cross, and you NEVER turned your back on the altar unless you have done the mytania first. As an altar boy I was taught to do the mytania while walking around the altar as well.

As Byzantines, we use our whole bodies in the worship of God, not just part of our bodies.

Slava Isusu Christu! Slave na Viki!

Tim

Off Topic:
Any Byzantine Catholic churches that are not in union with Rome?

Spasi Khristos! Welcome to the Forum.

You will find vagantes here and there using the title Byzantine Catholic sometimes. The OCA used to be called the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church and ACROD's full name is American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church.

Byzantine Catholics not in union with Rome.

Besides the Orthodox - who are not in communion with Rome, I don't know who else this could be used to describe, and I am pretty sure most Orthodox would not use this moniker for themselves (at least in English)....

With fear of starting a war of semantics and terminology, if any such creature presented itself, I would be very confused and very wary.

A Simple Sinner--try this link on for size:

http://members.tripod.com/~Mark1x1/index.html

I don't think they are in communion with Rome. They seem to be an off shoot of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America, with a split occuring in 1927. I haven't read everything on every page, but that's the gist of it. Please note I am not endorsing this site, I am just passing it along as I think it fits with the thread. Is anyone else familiar with this Church?

Tim

AAAAAAAAAH - this is one of Neil's little collection

This lot are not in Communion with anyone - another vagante lot I fear

Ahh, Mar Markus, among my favorite of the vagante (and among the longest surviving of the genre also - I think only Bishop Karl Pruter has actually been active longer).

As I once noted, the gentleman's hierarchial vesture in this picture [mimiller2.tripod.com] greatly resembles my Grand-Aunt Matilda's sofa throw, of which my grandmother once said "the Sallies wouldn't have used it to wrap a naked man in a blizzard"

Anhelyna,

How can you say that they are in communion with no one?

List of Churches with which they have entered into communion since 1964 [mark1x1.tripod.com]

Many years,

Neil

RATS

Neil your link to the pic of Mar Markus is not working