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I have decided to move this topic to here. I have asked my wife, to find the printed sources. I am at work at the moment and have limited access.
Firstly, let's please limit this discussion to the tradition and ordination of deaconesses in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Here is an online source for the ordination of deaconesses in the Eastern Orthodox Church:
Quote
ORDER FOR THE ORDINATION OF A WOMAN DEACON

After the completion of the holy Anaphora and the opening of the doors, before the Deacon says, Having commemorated all the Saints,[1] the one to be ordained is brought before the Bishop. As he declaims the invocation, Divine grace,[2] etc., she bows her head, on which he lays his hand.

He makes the sign of the Cross three times over her and prays as follows:

Holy and All-powerful God, through the birth in flesh of your Only-begotten Son and our God from a Virgin you sanctified woman, and granted not only to men but also to women the grace and visitation of the Holy Spirit. Now, Master, look upon this servant of yours also, call her to the work of your service[3] and send down upon her the rich gift of your Holy Spirit. Guard her in your Orthodox faith in a blameless way of life in accordance with what is well pleasing to you, as she fulfils her ministry[4] at every moment.[5]

For to you belong all glory, honour and worship, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

After the Amen one of the Deacons prays as follows:

In peace, let us pray to the Lord. And the rest, as in the ordination of male Deacons, with the necessary changes of gender in the petition for the candidate.

While the Deacon is saying this, the Bishop, with his hand still resting on the head of the one being ordained, prays as follows:

Master and Lord, you do not reject women who offer themselves, and by divine counsel, to minister as is fitting to your holy houses, but you accept them in the order of ministers. Give the grace of your Holy Spirit to this servant of yours also, who wishes to offer herself to you, and to accomplish the grace of the diaconate, as you gave the grace of your diaconate to Phoebe, whom you called to the work of the ministry. Grant her, O God, to persevere without condemnation in your holy churches, to give careful attention to her way of life, to chastity in particular, and show her to be your perfect servant, that, when she stands before the judgement of Christ, she may also receive the fitting reward of her way of life.[6]

By the mercy and love for humankind of your Only-begotten Son, with whom you are blessed, etc.

And after the Amen the Bishop places the Deacon�s Orarion on her neck, under the Maphorion, bringing the two extremities round to the front.[7]

The other Deacon stands outside the Sanctuary and says:

Having commemorated all the Saints, again and again in peace, let us pray to the Lord, etc.

After she has received Communion of the holy Body and Blood, the Bishop hands her the Chalice. When she has taken it, she places it on the holy Table.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] The ordination takes place at the same point of the Liturgy as that for male Deacons and the role of the diaconate as the minister of the Chalice is stressed by the giving of the Chalice to the newly ordained woman Deacon. This clearly indicates that the newly ordained was admitted to the Sanctuary and stood near the Altar. The 14th century canonist Matthew Blastares notes that, �except for a few things, the ordination of women deacons is to be performed like that for male deacons�. He notes particularly that �she is brought to the Holy Table�. The rubrical details in the older books are few and the actual formula of ordination is not given in full. As a result we do not know how the candidate was described or what her ecclesiastical status was before ordination. I do not think the fact that she only bows and does not kneel has any theological signifance.

[1] This prayer is less specific than that for male Deacons and makes no reference to the �service of the Mysteries�. On the other hand there is no distinction between the sexes with regard to the �gift of the Holy Spirit� conferred by ordination.

[2] See the rite for male Deacons.

[3] Greek diakonia.

[4] Greek leitourgia. Here and elsewhere translated by �ministry�. The verb by �minister�.

[5] This prayer is less specific than that for male Deacons and makes no reference to the �service of the Mysteries�. On the other hand there is no distinction between the sexes with regard to the �gift of the Holy Spirit� conferred by ordination.

[6] Whereas the model for the male diaconate is St Stephen, that for women Deacons is St Phoebe of Kenchreae, who is clearly described as a �Deacon� in Romans 16. In contrast to the prayers for male ordinands, the prayer underlines that fact that the woman has offered herself for ordination, which is more reminiscent of the rite of monastic profession.

[7] The woman Deacon is specifically said to be vested in a �deacon�s orarion�, but she wears it with both ends hanging down in front, like a western stole, rather than over the left shoulder. This difference appears to be purely practical, since the woman Deacon would be wearing the maphorion, or ample monastic veil, which would make wearing the orarion over her shoulder difficult.

Let me state that I think it is incorrect to speak of deaconesses as "the woman deacon" as in this document. The printed materials only use the term deaconesses.

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The ordination of female deacons would be an immediate act of schism from the Catholic faith, whether they are done in the Catholic Church or Orthodox Church.
Stephanos I
Dear Stephanos,
I have taken the liberty of moving your comment to this topic.
1) I prefer tio use the term deaconess because that is the term used by my church, not "woman deacon".

Deaconess have already been ordained in the early church and existed in the early church and were not the cause of the schism.
Secondly, deaconesses exist today in the Eastern Orthodox Church and yet this is not cited as a cause of schism.
This Roman Catholic professor,Prof. Phyllis Zagano, Hofstra University, Hempstead, N.Y., ( http://www.corpus.org/hpage.cfm?Web_ID=510) makes an interesting comment about this fact:

1) IN the Georgian Orthodox CHurch:
Quote
Despite the decline of the order of deaconesses in the early Middle Ages, Orthodoxy never prohibited it. In 1907 a Russian Orthodox Church commission reported the presence of deaconesses in every Georgian parish; the popular 20th-century Orthodox saint Nektarios (1846-1920) ordained two women deacons in 1911; and up to the 1950's a few Greek Orthodox nuns became monastic deaconesses. In 1986 Christodoulos, then metropolitan of Demetrias and now archbishop of Athens and all of Greece, ordained a woman deacon according to the "ritual of St. Nektarios" - the ancient Byzantine text St. Nektarios used.
Multiple inter-Orthodox conferences called for the restoration of the order, including the Interorthodox Symposium at Rhodes, Greece, in 1988, which plainly stated, "The apostolic order of deaconess should be revived." The symposium noted that "the revival of this ancient order should be envisaged on the basis of the ancient prototypes testified to in many sources and with the prayers found in the Apostolic Constitutions and the ancient Byzantine liturgical books."

She makes an interesting comment on relatioins between the Catholic Church and the Armenian Orthodox Church which has deaconesses:
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In fact, the Catholic Church has already indirectly acknowledged valid ordinations of women by the Armenian Apostolic Church, one of the churches of the East that ordains women deacons. There are two recent declarations of unity - agreements of mutual recognition of the validity of sacraments and of orders - between Rome and the Armenian Church, one signed by Paul VI and Catholicos Vasken I in 1970, another between John Paul II and Catholicos Karekin I in 1996.
These agreements are significant, for the Armenian Apostolic Church has retained the female diaconate into modern times. The Armenian Catholicossate of Cilicia has at least four ordained women. One, Sister Hrip'sime, who lives in Istanbul, is listed in the official church calendar published by the Armenian Patriarchate of Turkey as follows: "Mother Hrip'sime Proto-deacon Sasunian, born in Soghukoluk, Antioch, in 1928; became a nun in 1953; Proto-deacon in 1984; Mother Superior in 1998. Member of the Kalfayian Order. Mother Hrip'sime has worked to restore the female diaconate as an active social ministry, and for many years was the general director of Bird's Nest, a combined orphanage, school and social service center near Beiruit, Lebanon. Her diaconate, and that of the three other women deacons, is far from monastic.
Prayer from the ordination service of deaconess:
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O Eternal God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator of man and of woman, who replenished with the Spirit Miriam, and Deborah, and Anna, and Huldah; who did not disdain that your only-begotten Son should be born of a woman; who also in the tabernacle of the testimony, and in the temple, did ordain women to be keepers of your holy gates - look down now upon this your servant who is to be ordained to the office of a deaconess, and grant her your Holy Spirit, that she may worthily discharge the work which is committed to her to your glory, and the praise of your Christ, with whom glory and adoration be to you and the Holy Spirit for ever. Amen.
- Apostolic Constitutions, No. 8 (late fourth century)
Back to work, my lunch hour is over.

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I'm definitely not an expert of deaconesses (or deacons for that matter) however, I believe I remember reading, eons ago... the early Church had deaconesses primarily for use with female converts who were fully nude at baptism...

I'm sure there are others who can respond with more complete information...

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The Carthusians Roman Catholic order has deaconesses. They are in communion with Rome.

I agree with you Miller. Deaconesses are not "female deacons".

As a matter of fact, the Roman Catholic Church has "deaconesses" in practice: Active Nuns and "lay ecclesial ministers" that are also "extraordinary 'ministers' of Holy Communion". Female EMHC's often bring Holy Communion to the sick or bed-ridden. Many of these women are involved with the education of children, RCIA, and adult education. They practically are deaconesses.

IN the Eastern Catholic Chruches, the Shamassy often helps with the lady's organization, chanting and catechetical education.

My opinion is to stop living as fantasy and cease confusing the faithful. If we are going to give these women a "blesseing" to "serve" thier community in these ways and we already have a historical position/title for them, why beat around the bush?

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Additional quotes from the Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c. 390)(emphases mine):

Quote
Let not any woman address herself to the deacon or bishop without the deaconess.

Quote
Ordain also a deaconess who is faithful and holy for the ministrations toward women. For sometimes the bishop cannot send a deacon (who is a man) to the women, on account of unbelievers. You should therefore send a woman, a deaconess, for many necessities. For example, in the baptism of women, the deacon will anoint only their forehead with the holy oil. And after him, the deaconess will anoint them. For there is no necessity that the women should be seen by the men.

Quote
Let the deaconess be a pure virgin. Or, at the minimum, let her be a widow who has been married only once and who is faithful and well-esteemed.

Quote
A deaconess does not bless, nor does she perform anything belonging to the office of presbyters or deacons. Rather, she is only to keep the doors and to minister to the presbyters in the baptizing of women, for the sake of decency.

If we are to appeal to the authority of the Apostolic Constitutions (which I applaud) we must follow them in their entirety, not only in those issues where they happen to agree with our desires. I fully support the ordination of deaconesses to perform precisely those tasks suitable to that order, utterly distinct as it is from the order of deacon.

On that note, the Extrordinary Ministers of Holy Communion in the Latin Church must be abolished, in keeping with the Apostolic Constitutions, permitting, as it does, only deacons to assist presbyters in the distribution of the Eucharist.

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To add context, here are more quotes from the Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c. 390), dealing with the role of women in the Church in general, but not deaconesses in particular:

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We do not permit our women "to teach in the church." Rather, they are only permitted to pray and hear those who teach. For Jesus Himself, our Master and Lord, when He sent out the twelve to make disciples of the people and of the nations, nowhere sent out women to preach - even though there was no lack of women available. For there were with Him the mother of our Lord and His sisters; Mary Magdalene; Mary, the mother of James; Martha and Mary, the sisters of Lazarus; Salome; and certain others.... For "the head of the wife is the man," and it is not reasonable that the rest of the body should govern the head

Quote
As to women baptizing, we let you know that there is no small peril to those who undertake it. Therefore, we do not advise you to do it. For it is dangerous, or rather wicked and impious.... For if in the foregoing constitutions, women have not been permitted to teach, how will anyone allow them ... to perform the office of a priest? For such is not one of the institutions of Christ, but is one of the ignorant practices of the Gentile atheism. For they ordain women priests for the female deities. After all, if baptism were to be administered by women, certainly our Lord would have been baptized by his own mother and not by John. Or when He sent [the apostles] to baptize, He would have also sent along women for this purpose.

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John,

I don't disagree with you. I wrote my post in haste, so it wasn't very well thought out.

I think the whole concept of "extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion" is silly. The point I was making is that if the Roman Church does this, why wouldn't they have deaconesses?

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Hmm. That's strange.

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To add context, here are more quotes from the Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c. 390), dealing with the role of women in the Church in general, but not deaconesses in particular:

John

Hmm. I quoted the Apostolic Constitutions from the Catholic Encyclopaedia on the original thread making exactly the same points as John and was subjected to ad hominem criticism.
Just a Pilgrim
Dear "Just a Pilgrim",
You did not make the same point as John by any means:
1)John states clearly that his citation is in redards to women in general not to deaconesses in particular. The Encyclopedia article you quoted did not cite the ordination service for deaconesses in the Eastern Church. As others have stated the article did not mention current research since 1908.
2) This discussion is dealing with deaconesses in the Eastern Orthodox Church not with the Roman Catholic Church; why bring up something from another topic. Please let's stick to the topic at hand.

Readers may find this excerpt interesting since it deals with the early hiistory of deaconesses in the early church and then goes on to discuss the ordination of deaconesses in the Orthodox Church, including the ordination rite:

Quote
Orthodox Women and Pastoral Praxis
Observations and Concerns for the Church in America

Kyriaki Karidoyanes FitzGerald
This article was published in the St. Nina Quarterly, Volume 3, No. 2. It was excerpted and adapted from a paper given at the Intra-Orthodox Conference on Pastoral Praxis (24-25 September 1985) and subsequently published in Orthodox Perspectives on Pastoral Praxis (Brookline, Mass.: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 1988). Reprinted by permission.
The ministry of men and women is a topic that is being discussed in many circles today. It is my intention to identify some of the significant issues related to women and to Church praxis (practice) that need to be addressed.
American-born Orthodox Christians, especially the generation of post-World War II, have been deeply influenced by the attitudes of contemporary society. These attitudes at times may or may not coincide or complement the fundamental affirmations of the Orthodox Christian faith. Much of our sense of self and perceived identity, like that of many Americans, has been significantly shaped by the "teachings" of the surrounding Western culture and society. To analyze these factors lies outside the scope of this paper. It is, however, very important that we recognize that every believer is susceptible to the influence of the diverse values of our society. Women are equally affected. Orthodox women are all too frequently forced to choose between what is often called the "traditional" or the "contemporary" understanding of women. Orthodox women often prematurely assess their position and role in the Church from either one of these two perspectives, long before they can reflect upon the entire theological, historical, and pastoral tradition of our Church. This takes place simply because they have had precious little exposure to this tradition.1
Women and the Diaconate
There has been growing interest in recent years among Orthodox in the historic position of the female deacon and in the possibility of reviving this ministry. Clearly, there has been a very remarkable development in this area of theological investigation. It is now common to find many Orthodox theologians openly discussing this issue. For the most part, they find no doctrinal reason against the rejuvenation of a genuine order of women deacons. Because these theologians see no doctrinal reason to keep the Church from reactivating the diaconate of women, this is a recognition which is, in itself, highly significant.2
The most extensive and fundamental research by an Orthodox scholar on the topic of the order of the deaconess has been done by Professor Evangelos Theodorou of the University of Athens. Through his analysis of Byzantine liturgical texts, Theodorou has clearly demonstrated that the female deacons were actually ordained at the altar and within the context of the Eucharist. While this question was once debated among Orthodox theologians, Theodorou has forcefully shown that the female deacon did not simply receive a blessing (cheirothesia) but received the laying on of hands (cheirotonia) as was the case of the male deacon.3
According to the Byzantine liturgical texts, the ordination of the woman deacon occurred as any other ordination to major orders. It took place during the celebration of the Eucharist and at the same point in the service that the male deacon was ordained. She was ordained at the altar by the bishop and, later in the service, received Holy Communion at the altar with the other clergy.
4 Depending upon the need, location, and situation in history, the deaconess ministered primarily to the women in the community in much the same way that the male deacon ministered to men.5 While the expression of the deaconess’ work varied in both form and content throughout the life of the Church, it is important to note that the hallmark of this ministry had always been loving service to others. This is because the female deacon, like the male deacon, was ordained to diakonia or ministry.6 And, as was the case with her male counterpart, she was ordained to unconditional service to the Lord and His Church. The woman deacon had always to be receptive to the many changing needs of the Church and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
There is no clear evidence to explain why the order of the deaconess was gradually deemphasized sometime after the twelfth century. It should be noted, however, that there does not exist any canon or Church regulation that opposes or suppresses the order. Writing in 1954 Professor Evangelos Theodorou noted that one could find at that time convents of the Church of Greece in which there were ordained deaconesses. This observation is certainly an important one.7
Before going any further in our discussion, it is important to emphasize here that we must not misunderstand the diaconate to be merely a stepping stone to the ordained priesthood. This is still a fairly common, yet mistaken, assumption expressed by many within the Church. This kind of thinking is essentially alien to the proper Orthodox Christian understanding of ordination. The diaconate is a genuine and full order in and of itself. It has its own particular justification for existence and its own unique ministry within the life of the Church. While we know that certain male deacons may be called to pass from the order of deacon to the order of presbyter and bishop, the nature and vocation of the ministry of the ordained deacon is permanent, complete, and unique. Yet, the ministry of the deacon does not entail presiding at the celebration of the Eucharist as the father of a community of believers. Thus, it was quite possible for both women and men to be ordained to the order of the diaconate.8
The ordained diaconate is the only ministry of higher orders that has been open to women in the Orthodox Church. Although women have in fact been ordained deacons in the Orthodox Church, they have never been ordained to the orders of priesthood and episcopacy. Those persons who presently believe that there is no need for the diaconate in general and, more particularly, for women deacons, would find the prayers of the Orthodox Church of special interest. In the Orthodox ordination service of the deaconess, the following prayer is offered by the ordaining bishop.
O God, the Holy and Almighty, You have blessed woman through the birth in the flesh of Your only-begotten Son and our God from the Virgin, and You have given the grace and visitation of the Holy Spirit not to men only, but to women as well; Lord, look now upon this Your servant and call her to the work of Your ministry (es to ergon tis diakonia sou). Send down upon her the rich gift of Your Holy Spirit. Preserve her in the Orthodox faith, that she may fulfill her ministry in blameless conduct according to what is well pleasing to You. For to You are due all honor, glory and worship, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and forever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.
And, as the ordination service continues, the bishop offers this prayer prior to vesting of the deaconess with the diaconal stole.
O Lord and Master, You do not reject women who are willing to offer themselves, in so far as it is fitting, to minister in Your holy houses, but rather You accept them into the rank of ministers (en taxei leitourgon). Grant the grace of Your Holy Spirit also to this Your servant who desires to offer herself to You and fulfill the grace of Your ministry, just as You gave the grace of Your ministry (charin tis diakonias sou) to Phoebe, whom You called to the work of ministry (ergon tis leitourgias).9
While a full analysis of the service of ordination of the woman deacon is beyond the scope of this paper, studies of these and other prayers clearly indicate that the witness of the liturgical life of the Church does not limit this particular visitation of the Holy Spirit to men only, nor to certain privileged women who lived during a certain time in history, never again to be repeated. There are no constraints imposed upon the Holy Spirit in these prayers! These prayers tell us that the Lord accepts women "into the rank of ministers" with no restrictions as to time and place.

The first Deaconesses-Iounia, Lydia, Priskilla
Trifena, Fivi, Tavitha
Certainly, there are a number of issues related to the order of the woman deacon that must be studied. Among these are the disciplinary canons that set various ages and conditions of life for the prospective deacon. Yet, these studies should not prevent us from seeing the great good that the rejuvenation of the order of the woman deacon would be for the Church today. We need only look around us and see the spiritual needs that exist within the parishes and in the larger society. Even with the assistance of the most devoted laypersons, our priests cannot be expected to meet the many demands of parish life. Therefore, it can be argued that the present situation requires that we also consider rejuvenating this special ministry for qualified women who, following a genuine discernment of their call, would be willing to make a permanent commitment to the ordained ministry of the Church. A decision by the Church to rejuvenate the order of the women deacons would certainly not be an action contrary to Scripture and Tradition. Rather, such an action would be in complete harmony with the Scripture and Tradition of the Church.
Those who have discussed the possible rejuvenation of the order of the woman deacon do not appear to have a clear perception with regard to how this might take place. Would it be possible, for example, for a particular diocesan bishop to simply begin to ordain women as deacons? This appears to be precisely what St. Nektarios did. He ordained at least two deaconesses for the convent on the island of Aegina for which he was the spiritual father.10 Or, some may argue, it may be necessary for a particular local church, rather than the pastoral initiative of an individual bishop, to make the decision to rejuvenate the order of the deaconess.11 Indeed, some may argue that the decision would have to be made by the entire Orthodox Church. Clearly, the issue is related to an even deeper one regarding the manner in which the Orthodox Church, either locally or internationally, is to act upon important questions that affect her life in the twentieth century.

http://www.stnina.org/journal/art/3.2.2

Readers should note that the article was reasearched and written between 1985-1988 before The Eastern Orthodox Church og Greece decided to renew the ordination of deaconesses.

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Orest,

Perhaps it is the word ordination that is causing a problem in communication here. My overall point on both threads was that a deaconess is/was not a female deacon. I think most people accept this. Did the Eastern Church "ordain" deaconesses? Certainly, I don't deny this. My point is that it seems clear (to me at least) there is a qualitative difference in what ordination meant in the context of both sexes. A deacon or priest receives something different than what a woman does when a bishop lays on hands. I wasn't making some sort of RC v EO argument. The fact that the quote I used from the ACs was sourced from the Catholic Encyclopaedia wasn't meant to detract from the fact that the ACs themselves date from long before the Great Schism.

I trust I make myself obscure.

At any rate I was probably being overly sensitive in making my above remark. I shall withdraw it. Apologies if I have caused offence.

YBIC.

FrDeacon Ed, Alice please delete my post of 14.44 on this thread yesterday.

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FWIW, I believe St. Nectarius of Aegina had a woman deaconess as recently as 1929. She seems to have done those jobs traditionally assigned to women deacons like those specified by Pliny the Younger in his letter to the Emperor Trajan.

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Originally Posted by johnzonaras
FWIW, I believe St. Nectarius of Aegina had a woman deaconess as recently as 1929. She seems to have done those jobs traditionally assigned to women deacons like those specified by Pliny the Younger in his letter to the Emperor Trajan.
Where can we find the text of that letter?

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Various translations of an excerpt from Pliny's Letter to Trajan I have found on the internet:

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Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.
ccat.sas.upenn.edu [ccat.sas.upenn.edu]

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All the more I believed it necessary to find out what was the truth from two servant maids, which were called deaconesses, by means of torture. Nothing more did I find than a disgusting, fanatical superstition.
tyrannus.com [tyrannus.com]

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After receiving this account, I judged it so much the more necessary to endeavour to extort the real truth, by putting two female slaves to the torture, who were said to officiate in their religious rites: but all I could discover was evidence of an absurd and extravagant superstition.
classicauthors.net [secundusplinius.classicauthors.net]

I find no mention of "jobs traditionally assigned to women deacons" in this letter other than the vague description, "officiate in their religious rites," mentioned in the last translation. Is there another letter from Pliny to Trajan that mentions deaconesses?

Perhaps the original language would shed more light on the subject:

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Quo magis necessarium credidi ex duabus ancillis, quae ministrae dicebantur, quid esset veri, et per tormenta quaerere. Nihil aliud inveni quam superstitionem pravam, immodicam
tyrannus.com [tyrannus.com]

Is there a Latinist in the house? (His deed certainly sounds all the more evil in Latin).

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John you have found the letter of which I was speaking as well as the passage to which I was referring. As a Professor of Classics, I can translate the phrase you are interested IN: ex duabus ancillis, quae ministrae dicebantur.... from two maids, who were said to be Helpers (ministrae)." Although the language may seem vague, there is scholarly consensus that these maids were deacons. One only has to examine the various scholarly commentaries/editions of Pliny to see that this is a non-issue. I would add in passing that testimony of slaves was only considered valid if it were obtained ..per tormenta (through torture). Because of the ambiguity of the passage, one can not use this as a proof text to show what the duties of women deaconesses were. The evidence can be argued either way depnding on one's point of view. I had not looked at the passage since I last used it in a class I offered several years ago.

The end of the letter by Pliny is rather interesting in that the whole movement against Christians in Bithynia was driven by the butcher lobby. Apparently because of the growth of Christianity in the area, fewer people were buying meat.

A more interesting issue is St. Nectarios of Aegina's deaconess in 1929. In fact, I just noticed that there is a detailed discussion of Nectarios above and, for that reason, I retire from the lists. My memory was vague and I familiarized myself with the information posted above.

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As a linguist, I get engaged when there is a proliferation of terms that are meant to signify one or another reality, e.g. Chairotonia vs. Chairothesia, i.e., 'sacramental laying on of hands to do an ordained function' versus 'laying on of hands for a blessing'.

But, one must realize that each of these terms exists only within the context of the "theological system" operative for the speakers. And there are more theological systems than we can count.

The real question for me is not the semantic signification, but rather the actual reality within the community, i.e., how do people understand and accept the functionality of the individual involved.

Inside the Royal Gates or not, the fact remains that women are absolutely needed within our community and are not relegated as by our Moslem neighbors to covering up and remaining silent.

All baptized are called to 'diakonia' = 'service' within the baptized community. What a women might be called upon to do because of "needs" is what she must do (just like males). Making distinctions based upon one or another theological system of 'orders' doesn't seem quite Christian. There are certainly others - just look at Protestant communities - even if their orders are not valid - their communities are indeed communities of faith and SERVICE. And to say to a woman: inadequate plumbing (despite grace) renders you incapable of serving the baptized seems inappropriately judgemental.

We need to move forward - with the grace of the Holy Spirit - (remember the Paraclete who provides graces and guidance to the living Church?) to ensure that every baptized soul has the chance to serve. That can take a lot of different forms, but we must be sure to acknowledge the talents and graces of all the baptized.

Blessings!!

Dr. John

Last edited by Dr John; 10/01/07 11:42 PM.
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