www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Does the temporal mission of HS reveal inner trinitarian life?

Note to the reader: I had originally posted this in the discussion on the Orthodox view of the RC Church. Since that post was closed, I thought I would create a separate thread on this question.


This brings up an interesting question:

What is the reason why the Orthodox East seems to take the position that the temporal mission of the Holy Spirit reveals nothing about inner Trinitarian life? What is the basis for this exclusion?

Would we say the same about the Logos? If not, why?

This has bothered me for some time and I have no answer for it based on my reading so far.

God bless,

Gordo

I would say that the temporal mission itself of the Son reveals no more about the inner life of the Trinity than the temporal mission of the Spirit does. The Son's (or the Logos's) temporal mission is that of Savior. What does that reveal about the inner life of the Trinity? For me, I would say that it reveals little, if anything, about the inner life of the Trinity. Now, Holy Scripture does reveal to us that the Logos, by the power of the Holy Spirit, became Incarnate and was born of the Theotokos. But what does that really reveal about the inner Trinitarian life? Again, for me, the answer is nothing. We say in the Creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. This, of course, comes from Holy Scripture (Gospel of John, I don't have chapter and verse right now). That is a revealed statement that relates to the inner life of the Trinity (referring to the way in which the Holy Spirit receives his being from the Father), just as the Church has believed that the scriptural statement "I have begotten thee" reveals something of the way in which the Son receives his being from the Father. Now with respect the Son's sending the Holy Spirit into the world as "Paraclete" or "Comforter," perhaps that is analogous in some way to the relationship between the Son and the Holy Spirit within the life of the Holy Trinity. However, I'm uncomfortable with that as being anything other than a theologoumenon, since neither Holy Scripture nor a Council accepted by both Catholics and Orthodox demonstrates otherwise. Just my thoughts. I hope others will chime in.

Ryan

I think that Photius got overzealous in stating that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone in that he forgot that the Holy Spirit also proceeds through the son. True, the Father is the principle source- the source of origin so that there is one spiration and one source.
Are you saying that the eternal procession is through the son?
or that the temporal mission is through the son ?
or both?
I think both fits in with both Catholic and Orthodox thought.


I think the temporal mission reveals something but it is not a direct correlation.
What it reveals is that the Son has the power to send the Holy Spirit in a temporal way but doesn't explain why.
When Jesus breathed on them on Easter evening Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. How exactly that is related to eternal procession is a mystery to me.
one is eternal beyond time and the other is within time.

Thanks, Ryan and Melkiteman for responding.

And yet is not revelation the temporal process of God revealing Himself and His very life to us? Why would the Incarnate Son exercise a role in relationship to the Holy Spirit that was not in some way His from all eternity?

I am reminded of a quote from St. Methodius of Olympus, the third century bishop of Patara and martyr under Diocletian,
who compared the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit to the creation of Eve through Adam, referring to the Holy Spirit as the "rib of the Logos/Word". Could not the inner life of the Trinity be revealed somehow even in our own original creation as His image and likeness?

I would certainly not argue for filoque as an adequate term, but I am much more favorably inclined to follow the Cappadocians and say "through" (dia), rather than St. Photius and say "alone".

God bless,

Gordo

The temporal missions of the Son and Spirit do reveal something about God, because the missions energetically manifest the eternal communion that exists between them; for, as scripture attests, the Son sends the Spirit as energy, i.e., as grace (John 20:22), while the Spirit also sends the Son and anoints Him with the divine glory as He (i.e., the Spirit) rests upon Him (Luke 4:18, and Matt. 3:16-17). Thus, the temporal activities of God do reflect the eternal communion that exists between the Son and Spirit within the divine energy; but nevertheless, the Spirit as person does not proceed (ekporeusis) existentially from or through the Son, but takes His origin only from the Father.

Sadly, by adding the filioque to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan creed the West has confused two distinct realities within the Godhead: (1) the Spirit's eternal existential procession (ekporeusis) of origin as person, which comes only from the Father; and (2) the eternal manifestation (pephenos) of the Spirit's existence as He progresses (proienai) from the Father through the Son in the divine energy.

I accept the teaching of both St. Photios and the Cappadocians, for both teachings are correct, since the Spirit as person receives His existence only from the Father (as St. Photios taught), while as energy He is made manifest from the Father through the Son (as St. Athanasios, the Cappadocians, St. Maximos the Confessor, and St. John Damascene taught).

Todd,

Thanks for replying. As usual, I need to "chew" a bit before I reply.

Good to see you posting again.

Gordo