www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Orthodox-Catholic commission agrees on primacy of Pope but...

Ah! You have decided that the RCC is wrong. You've got a lot
of company: Arius, Martin Luther, John Calvin, et al.

Edmac

Dear JR,

I did NOT say that the UGCC shouldn't exist - ROME's attitude towards it and the EC Churches SUGGEST that it shouldn't.

And if you would like to discuss that attitude, please just whistle.

My suggestion is that, GIVEN Rome's attitude, and the fact that Rome has clearly affirmed that the theology of the Unia is no longer applicable in these times, then the only legitimate recourse for the UGCC and others is to indeed "go home."

Although, within Orthodoxy itself, there are several homes . . .

And I was not speaking for myself but about the UGCC in abstract.

The UGCC IS my Church. And I go where it goes.

Wherever it goes.

Alex

Dear Lawrence,

Well, it is not as simple as that.

The UGCC is "its own ecclesial reality." On the level of spiritual culture, to go down the street to a Ukrainian Orthodox Church involves much more than simply a shift in faith and ecclesiology.

Again, I was speaking of the UGCC in abstract, as a generality.

As for UGCCers opting to go to Ukrainian Orthodox parishes, yes, we've had priests and monastics and laity up here who do that regularly.

As a matter of fact, whenever there is a fracas involving a new bishop or a controversy, the Ukrainian Orthodox Bishop wants to know the details, given that there is a new influx of UGCCers to his jurisdiction.

And, truth be told, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church makes it rather easy for UGCCers to join it - one only need go to confession, make known one's request to join the UOC, recite the Creed without the Filioque, promise to remain in Orthodoxy and "presto changeo" you are a member of the UOC in Canada.

Different rules apply to Christians of other Churches who wish to join the UOC.

Out West where UGCC parishes have forty hours devotion, public rosaries, shortened Liturgies, stations of the Cross et alia, yes, I agree those parishes will never even entertain the idea of joining Orthodoxy.

That is also why Easternization among these is not a priority - our religious Orders who lead the way to enhanced Latinization believe that the more one is exposed to "too much" Orthodoxy by way of liturgics and downplaying of the Latin devotions that are so much a part of their horizon - the greater the likelihood that we'll have mass defections to Orthodoxy.

Alex

Dear Fr. Deacon Richard,

Certainly, joining the MP would not be an option, although it has been for a number of our priests, including those who have joined the ROCOR jurisdiction, as you know.

The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople would be the only canonical option, but that is speculative.

If you think you can get rid of the Sacred Congregation once and for all - where do I send my donation of support?

Is there a petition and may I distribute C-Shirts ("Can the Congregation?")

As for Pat. Joseph the Hieroconfessor, yes, he remained firm in his loyalty to Rome.

But I believe there are those in the RCC and in the UGCC that have much to answer for for the way they treated the old Confessor.

What is interesting on this thread is the number of those who are coming after me re: loyalty to Rome.

But loyalty cuts both ways. Let's take a hard look at Rome's loyalty to the UGCC.

If some here are so horrified at the thought of Orthodoxy as an option for UGCCers, they shouldn't be given the close relations between the first and third Rome's.

Let's not be so convenient as to forget that.

Alex

Dear Edmac,

And when did Ray ever say that?

Alex

4th paragraph

Edmac

Alex,

If Catholic-Orthodox talks keep going forward and Rome is really serious about reunion, this would certainly be a logical step.

Then again, I don't think we're quite that close--at least not yet.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Dear Edmac,

Oh!

Alex

Sincerely.....I see that this dialog is as a political negotiation.

The Romanian Church does not recognize the Bishop of Roma as first through the Patriarchs. Beyond the fact that the Bishop of Roma renounced at this title, the Romanian Church says that:


I think that it would be a more fruitful dialog after a Panorthodox Synod.

I would be joyful to arrive a day when I would have the blessing to partake in a Catholic Church and to hear that a Catholic brother, as Jason aka Roman Redneck is, to partake in a Orthodox Church.

Christ is Risen!

marian+