www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology akathist to Tsar Ivan the Terrible

Dear Friends,

Here is something new! The Orthodox akathist site now has an akathist in honour of Tsar Ivan the Terrible!

http://akafist.narod.ru/I/Ioann_Grozny.htm

?

Alex

HUH?!?!?

Well Alice they are Russian after all!
Stephanos I

Dear Mother Alice,

There is, in fact, a veneration of Tsar Ivan the Terrible in Russia and there are those who want him officially canonized a saint - a move that is strenuously opposed by the ROC.

It is just rather odd that akafist.narod.ru that lists dozens upon dozens of akathists, both official, blessed for use locally or in one's cell etc., would carry an akathist to Ivan the Terrible. There is also a movement, perhaps not as large as this one, to canonize Rasputin.

That is all fine, but one didn't expect to see this on that website.

Alex

Dear Friends,

FYI, and I didn't write that akathist either!

Have done akathists on some "iffy" subjects, but not that one!

Alex

I would say: Well Alice, Tsar Ivan the Terrible was Russian after all!
Does anyone else think this akathist is influenced by secular Russian nationalism rather than a spiritual influence?

I would say it is influenced by the secular darkness that is perverse. The man had his good point and he did pray. But the intentions behind the prayers seemed a bit off to me, but then I am not Russian. He did build St. Basils, and it is beautiful, but seems that most of the outward beauty if a result of a later place in time. Also, he built it on the edge of what is the Kreminlin - so he watch over his empire - so was his purpose pure worship? Who knows! But, making him and Rasputin saints - year i think the darkness of secularism trying to invade the Church more than it already has.

Back in the 70's, my professor in Medieval Slavic History (a very interesting course) detailed how Ivan had a special tower built where there were jail cells at various levels (i.e. 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor, etc.). As he would ascend and descend the stairwell, he would stop at each level and take some time out to personally torture the prisoners who happened to be on that floor! I can see it now: St. Ivan, patron of wayward correction officers!

What has been posted is correct. There has been a movement for the canonization of both Ivan IV and Grigori Rasputin. These views come from the ultra nationalistic spectrum and are immediately dismissed by the ROC authorities. The proponents of Ivan IV claim that his reason for canonization is based on the capture of Kazan and the triumph of Orthodoxy over the hagarene Tatars. Those pushing for Rasputin claim that if the Royal Family had listened to him, revolution would have been avoided. If one looks, one can find all sorts of akafists, icons and such on the internet of both of the forenamed. But the Church has already spoken on the matter, and considers both cases to be null. Patriarch Alexy II has spoken out against the canonizations in unusually strong terms over the past year, stressing it would be impossible to canonize Ivan the Terrible, who ordered the deaths of several clergymen who were later sainted, and Rasputin, whose debauchery and dubious healing practices compromised the last imperial family of Tsar Nicholas II.

"This is madness!" the patriarch said in his first statement on the subject in December 2001. "What believer would want to stay in a church that equally venerates murderers and martyrs, lechers and saints?"

What one of the tiny schismatic Churches, such as ROAC or the TOC do, is open to interpretation.

Alexandr

Dear Alexandr,

Agreed, sir!

But why did akafist.narod.ru post such an akathist on their website?

I thought it only posted official akafists in harmony with Orthodox ecclesial approval?

They do have some akafists that are for "reading in one's cell" in private.

Are they saying by this that private veneration here for "you know who" is "garashov?"

Alex

Alexandr: WELL SAID!
*****************************************************************

Orthodox/Catholic, Dr. Alex: 'fess up, as they say in colloquial English!!! We KNOW that it was really you who wrote the Akathist to Grigori Rasputin and Tsar Ivan!!!

Alice, just teasing
(I really couldn't help myself on that one)

Dear Mother Alice,

Well, the "Terrible" part about my akathists is true enough . . .

Kissing your right hand etc.

Alex

The best answer I can give is "I don't know" ! However, if one looks, one can also find an akafist to Fedor Kuzmich, the supposed Czar Alexander I after he faked his death in Taganrog. And as I am sure you are aware, there are numerous apocryphal writings about such subjects as the Lost City of Kitezh and so forth.

Alexandr

Is that like the Lost City of Atlantis?

Dear Alexandr,

Well, there should be no problem with St Feodor Kuzmich (canonized along with All Saints of Siberia).

One of our Russian monarchists up here wrote a book about the whole affair to try and show that it was all actually true.

St Theodore Kuzmich was a real saint with reportedly real miracle-working powers.

And you mean you don't believe in Kitezh?

And you call yourself a Russian?!

Alex