www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West St. Augustine against Deaf

I did some very basic reading in few areas on the internet (googling, Deaf blogs, forums, etc.) saying that St. Augustine quoted "Deaf children are a sign of sin."

I'm like "WHAT THE (BLEEP!)!!!" If that is true, then UNAXIOS to so-called "SAINT" Augustine!

I'm going to try to research further, but it seems difficult to do so. If any one of you have knowledge or access to "St." Augustine if it's true that he said it. Now, BE HONEST! HONEST TO G-D! Don't cover up for a "Saint" who said such EVIL EVIL EVIL thing like that!!! GRRRR!

Audism is like hearing supremacy...which has GOT TO STOP in this freaking world especially in the CHURCH!!! We have got to STOP AUDISM!!! I will NEVER tolerate it in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Both Churches have a LOOOOOONG way to go to STOP AUDISM! It's sooo frustrating and infuriating!

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

I think that this is the quote you are looking for:

http://books.google.com/books?id=d8...MDsZ&sig=mZBBPB9TkVcQpK_XwSwcwDDfz7c

And yes blessed Augustine is using the notion that some infants are blind and deaf as a sign that they are not conceived in innocence but in iniquity.

Joe

Evidence I would say, that even the chuch fathers made mistakes, and that God continues to reveal himself to us; leading us to a better understanding of Him.

Joe...thanks for the link...I appreciate it...I'll share it with other Deaf experts to see if the book is good or not.

Now...as for Priest's Grandson comment...I'd like to reply to it...Will the Church admit that Augustine is in ERROR??? That's what I want to know. I HOPE so!

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

blessed Augustine made lots of errors. Indeed, many fathers made errors as Priest's Grandson points out.

Joe

SPDundas,

I could not imagine the Church espousing St. Augustine's view on this. I wouldn't worry about it! Not everything a saint says is right, but that doesn't make him or her any less of a saint.

Alexis

Dundas dont get so upset everyone is a product of their times.
Leprosy as well as any other illness also was seen as either parents of the individual being the result of sin.
Other fathers also saw the Jews in a very bad light.
Live in the presence of God's now, not what has been or the future which may not be.
Peace
Stephanos I

Hello Stehanos I,

Well, you have to understand that many philosophers such as Socrates, and especially Plato and Aristotle were audists. And with that have carried a hugh rippling effect throughout many many centuries even through today.

Today's audism mindset is a product of several milleniums worth of erroneous philosophical perspective.

If I had the time machine, I'd shove my two cents into the throats of these philosophers and theologians!

Even many people failed to listen to Christ who said that it is NOT the sin that resulted in many things such as blindness, Deafness, etc. But yet this "St." Augustine failed to see Christ's message. Go figure!

Now, the both Churches (Catholic and Orthodox) DO have audism in it, even if it's superior attitude and/or unintentional audism.

That is why Protestantism is soooo attractive to Deaf people because they embraced Deaf people and do not see then in any way inferior to ANYONE. There are many Deaf pastors, church leaders, etc. in Protestantism. MANY MANY Deaf people I know have left the Catholic Church AND the Orthodox Church for Protestantism because they viewed these two Churches as being a bully and apathetic to Deaf people. I do feel the same way, but yet I remained in the Church...even though it's a struggle sometimes, truly.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

SPDundas,

I know you are upset, and I don't blame you for being so! I would be too. Still, out of a sense of obligation to a canonized Saint of the Church, I would ask that you respect St. Augustine by not putting "St." in quotation marks, as if to imply he isn't a saint.

Alexis

Well it's the same audist Church that proclaim him a "saint." Go figure!

I know, SPDundas, I really do feel ya, but we are members of that One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic (and apparently audist) Church, and St. Augustine is a proclaimed holy one to be revered and venerated by us. We shouldn't call into question his sanctity or mock him because of his errors. We are smart enough to know that the stuff he said about deaf people is uneducated at best, but then again he was just a human, no matter how holy, and was, like all of us, a poor subject of the Fall.

Alexis

Apathetic?
Strange! i know of an entire death community who even has a death priest.
And one of the local parishes had signing at their Mass, but it ceased when the lady who volunteered no longer wanted to serve that ministry.
We were willing to continue in our parish but we could not find anyone who would or could sign.
I often get exacerbated by the laity when they hurl oh I am just so burnt out. Mostly only after a year in ministry. Please to such people I say "give me a break" after 21 years of service who should speak of burnout,
Stephanos I

Father, I think you mean "deaf" not "death."

My great aunt is deaf and she attends a Deaf Mass. That's in the Diocese of Syracuse. She was raised Presbyterian but attends the Catholic parish, I assume, because of the Deaf Mass (though she hasn't converted, to my knowledge).

Alexis

The (now-former) house spiritual director at my college seminary was one of the deaf-apostolate priests in Philadelphia. Since he is a saintly man, he was very humble about it and didn't make a point about talking about it. However, the few times we did ask him, he said that it has been one of the most rewarding aspects of his priesthood (then a little more than 20 years).

I can think of at least two classmates who probably know onough ASL to provide pastoral ministry to deaf people. It's a beautiful and powerful ministry.

Yes that is right! I am sorry but am very distraught at the moment.
Stephanos I