www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Great Fast Vs Lent

I am going to ask a very real and striaght forth question.

Why are the rules of fasting differnt for Romans and Byzantines? I'm not looking @ the dates, but the rules.

It is my understanding on the first & Last of the Great Fast/Lent:

Byzantines are not allowed to eat Eggs, Dairy or Meat.
Romans may eat Eggs and Dairy as well as a small meal and two smaller ones not to exceed the orginal.

What is the thought behind this?

I ask because after a life time of being Byzantine but attending a Roman Catholic School I'm finding I was schooled more about Roman. And to be honest, with the RDL, the attitude in my local parish, and the seemingly lack of spritual guidence (Googling my priests name returns a comment in a forum where he states: "I work on the weekends") I'm feeling the Western Catholics are more in tune with todays needs where as the Easterns are attempting to force outdated traditions in an unrelating current day world.

Matthew,

The "rules" for fasting are guidelines.
The Romans prefer to express it in terms of the bare minimum of what to do - but many fast from much more than just the bare minimum.
The Byzantines prefer to express it in terms of the maximum of what to do - but many are told not to go to that extreme by their spiritual father.

There are many other Traditions here that you haven't yet explored including: Maronite, Syriac, Chaldean, Copt, Syro-Malankar, Malabar, etc...

As to "outdated traditions"... the Patriarch of the Western Catholics (the Pope of Rome) keeps telling his people to 'look to the East', 'follow their example', 'breathe with both lungs'; he doesn't see the East as 'unrelating' but as a solid rock in troubled waters.

Thanks for the reply. It's exactly what I was looking for. A simple, yet real concern I have each year is how are we suppose to attend a full day�s business with next to nothing in our stomachs. Not so much that we will starve, but more so it does impact our mental abilities and some of us work with millions of dollars worth of equipment putting lives in jeopardy as well as impacting thousands of people with a few wrong keystrokes. These are the kind of thoughts I have that the Eastern Faith lacks in understanding of its members. It's easy to Fast when there is little to nothing on the day�s agenda, but I would like to see someone in the Church Hierarchy work a full eight-plus hours like those who support them. Just my bitter two cents.


And sorry I forgot to spell check the post

Matthew,

Rethink the whole issue from a different perspective. Don't look at it in the terms of 'giving up' or 'suffering united with the Cross'. Look at it in the terms of an athlete preparing for a marathon. The Fast is offered for us to work at getting self control over both our prayer lives and our stomachs.

Those who are new to the Fast are never asked to go 'cold turkey' in keeping it, just like you would not take an untrained man and ask him to immediately start running 10 miles a day. Most spiritual fathers encourage people to start small and then build up over several years.

I get a lot of questions about this at the website. I always advise the writer to contact his spiritual father or confessor and then I suggest they build up is this or a similar manner:

Year 1 - Fast from meat on all Wed & Fri beginning with Meatfare Sunday, and all of Holy Week (from the last Friday of the Great Fast (the day before Lazarus Saturday) until Pascha). Fast from dairy on the first day of the Fast, all Wednesdays & Fridays and Holy Week.

This is usually something one can accomplish. It requires some endurance and is a great first step.

Year 2 - Keep the above plus more. Everyone is different. Maybe add full fasting from meat and milk the whole of the first and third weeks, or on all Mon, Wed & Fri of the Fast. Work it out with a spiritual father.

Year X - Keep the full fast.

For me the biggest challenge is figuring out what to eat. I'm allergic to some seafood but can eat white fish. So protein can come from peanut butter and such. I also use the Fast as an opportunity to eat more raw fruits and vegetables.

You are an athlete and the race is one of spiritual warfare. Each year you seek to raise the level of endurance like a runner tries to run that extra lap. The trained athlete can judge what he needs to eat to keep himself in top shape for the marathon. Each of us needs to make sure we get enough calories (and the right type) to get us through the day. An athlete gets to know exactly what he needs to eat to keep in shape for the run. The Fast offers us the opportunity to get both our spiritual and physical lives in shape for the really big run.

John

Exactly, John. And Matthew, remember that one's parish priest and/or spiritual director can dispense or commute even the 'minimum' fasting/abstinence to other pious practices if in his opinion it is in the best interest of the parishioner/directee. Our pastor made just such an announcement on Cheesefare Sunday.

I am curious as to the fasting from dairy...what of products that have small amounts of dairy in it? Like I bought some whole grain crackers, and read the box and found there was dairy in the ingredients. Or what of gelatin. In the West these things are allowed, but I am assuming in the East they are not?
I also find it a little tough to transition from West to East because in the West it was clear that I was going above what was asked. Now it seems in the East that you have permission to do less than the norm if an advisor says so. I guess I am not as used to things being o personally tailored...but I do see the wisdom in it. But it can be difficult for me to get the guidance I need, but I like the wisdom of building upon prior fasts with the widom of an advisor.

Being conscientious in keeping the Fast is a good thing. But one must also remember not to make the details of fasting an end in themselves. Remember one could technically keep the Fast if one did not eat crackers with small amounts of dairy in them but instead went to Red Lobster for the all you can eat special. But such an adherence to the fasting regulations misses the whole point of the Fast.

I�m not sure I would put it like that, as it comes across as �whatever you want�. But, in one sense, it is whatever you want. The athlete in training can eat poorly and not do his exercises. But will he win the race? Keep in mind that there is a difference in adjusting the details of the Fast to best support the physical and spiritual life and adjusting it to accommodate laziness. Where does one want to be at the end of the race?

I will note also (and should have mentioned it earlier) that those with medical issues (like diabetes) are not required to keep the Fast because their medical condition might require them to eat certain foods at certain times. The Church does not want anyone getting sick from fasting. These people can generally fast from something other then food, or concentrate more on prayer and acts of mercy.

Thanks for the reply. I did not mean do whatever yo want, so much as, whatever is the right amount for where you are at in life.
You mentioned red lobster, but I thought that seafood was considered part of not eating meat for the East. How could one go to such a place and have all you can eat, yet technically still be keeping the fast? Do I musunderstand, or is this from a Catholic or Eastern Catholic set of principles?

Interesting. Here is the background of this post:

On Great Fest Monday, I had a can of Campbells Veggie Soup, which one could expect to be meatless. Well, after reading the label (after eating it of course) towards the end it listed Chicken Broth. Which made me feel like I "failed" on the first day of the Great Fast, which then took me to the idea that being an Eastern Catholic is a dying tradition which then brought me to the fact that the Western Faith seems more "in tune" with today's needs.

thanks for your time and input. It did help, as I don't feel like such as failure for having soup made with some chicken broth in it.

It happens - and I well remember being told off by my GodPapa when the same sort of thing had happened to me. He was most insistent that I was not to beat myself up over this.

Yes , as a result I do now know to look at labels more closely - here I look to see if it has the label/logo of the Vegetarian Society - but then that's not vegan.

As you progress with fasting , you become more proficient at being able to cope with your diet - you do not have to live on PB&J sandwiches. It is wonderful when you find somewhere that sells good vegan food .

A lot of 'normal' non fast recipes can be adapted .

Fasting has also to be 'done' bearing in mind your particular domestic situation and this is where your SF knows you and what way he can help you ease into the fast

Do what is prescribed by your rite, but not in a scrupulous way. There is no need to read the fine print on labels or to interrogate those who prepare your food. If what is prescribed is not possible, get dispensed.

Beyond that we should fast from those things that are good in themselves but to which we can become attached in a way that distracts us from God. We can eliminate snacking except when necessary to disguise the fact that we are fasting. Our fasting should be invisible to everyone except those who know us well and should never become an imposition on those who are not fasting with us. We can try to leave a meal less than fully satisfied.

We can also fast through acts of charity and consideration for others. Our spouses and our children should find us more attentive to their needs and less demanding with respect to our own. Being grumpy because we are hungry will make this more difficult.

Part of fasting is the experience of failure. If we do not occasionally fail, we are not setting the bar high enough.

We can reduce the amount of time we devote to entertainment and increase our rule of prayer and spiritual reading. Leave the car radio off when you are alone. Shut off the TV. Reduce internet browsing.

What we save through self-denial should be given to others.

When fasting is viewed in the proper way, the differences in the rules from one jurisdiction to another are not terribly important.

right!
don't sacrifice the spirit of the Fast for the letter.
when I am able to folow the Fast, I do so. but where I am, the culture says no to Lent/Great Fast. I ahve to do the best I can, and I have few options. but when I do have options, I rejoice.
Much Love,
Jonn