The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
CelestineV, arekeon27, Wenura Ravindu, Leeno, San Nicolas
5,846 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 75 guests, and 35 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,168
Posts414,969
Members5,846
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#279840 02/23/08 09:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Grateful
Member
OP Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Originally Posted by Pani Rose
Originally Posted by dochawk
The RC church up the street is adding what I believe will be it's ninth weekend mass. No, wait; that can't be right. Evening in both English & Spanish both Saturday & Sunday, three or four Sunday morning in English, two Sunday afternoon in Spanish, and now another to be added. The fire marshal is insisting smile The church is only rated for something like 1,100 occupancy, and they're a couple hundred over.
hawk

GLORY TO GOD! Isn't that an awesome problem to have. A full church that many times a day. Glory to God!



Well said !

Sadly, it's a problem that is unlikely to be visited upon some churches, the way things are going . . .

Put another way, it seems that the most dynamic and popular branches of Christianity in the United States are the Roman Catholics, the Evangelicals, and the Charismatics.

Why?

And: what do Eastern Christians need to do to become more dynamic and popular?

-- John



Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Let's see, there are more Roman Catholics in the US than there are Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches, right? Shouldn't they have a lot more attendance at their churches? What percentage of Roman Catholics attend church regularly vs. the total number of Roman Catholics? Anybody have those percentages?

Ung

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
P
PrJ Offline
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
Having looked at the statistics for some time now, it seems pretty clear (at least to me) that the attendance issue is related to the newness of immigration. New immigrants tend to go to church much more often and with more fervency than their second, third or fourth generation counterparts.

SO if you look carefully at the statistics for attendance at Roman Churches, you will see that those areas which have experienced the most Hispanic immigration recently tend to have the most attended services.

There is also a regional issue -- people in the Midwest tend to go to Church more often than their counterparts on the coasts.

Anecdotally (I have not seen any statistics on this), I believe that they also tend to take the fasts more seriously. I was shocked when I moved to the Midwest to see that each fast-food restaurant adds "fish sandwiches" to their menu during Lent. The most recent surprise was Wendy's -- which now has a fish sandwich. At my college, the cafeteria ALWAYS serves a meatless dish on Fridays and most of the Catholics I work with take the non-meat requirement very seriously. My wife indicates the same phenomenon at her work. (Outside of the Hispanics in California, I did not notice the same trend.)

PrJ #279902 02/23/08 08:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Pjr
Well that does hold somewhat true, it is an inaccurate picture of things.
There are a lot of conversions among caucasians that have lived here since the Colonies began.
I travel alot and there are places where there are hign numbers of caucasians going to Mass, also there is an increase of Afro Americans.
Stephanos I
In our school the increase has been an eaqual number of caucasians and afro americans and not Latino or Philippino immigrants.

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Grateful
Member
OP Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Fathers, bless,

Both your posts were very intersting.

There are many people converting to Catholicism. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who leave the Catholic Church to join these new Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches. At least, that is how it appears on the basis of the anecdotal information that I have.

However, I remember something that Fr. Stephanos posted on another thread. He said that his parish is very full with people because they are getting the Truth.

I wonder if people are so attracted to the Catholic Church, the Evangelical churches and the Pentecostal Churches because they can clearly receive the Truth about Jesus there and because the people there are truly open to Him?

Is this more spiritual than demographic? I suspect yes.

-- John














Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian
Member
Offline
Orthodox Christian
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
I think the bishops have a lot to do with this scenario.

When the bishop is holy and dedicated to his flock, it follows that the people will be given a good example to imitate.

I think Texas and the South is growing because both Metropolitans Isaiah (GOARCH) and Dimitri (OCA) are holy men.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,131
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,131
Some population shifting is involved in some growth. In other instances there is largely a DESIRE to grow. A real desire that motivates people to join, return to, or at least come and visit and see for themselves...

What I always like to track from there, is this: What sort of vocations are they producing to the priesthood, diaconate, religious life, married life...

There is a lot out there to be hopeful about.

PrJ #280048 02/25/08 06:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by PrJ
I was shocked when I moved to the Midwest to see that each fast-food restaurant adds "fish sandwiches" to their menu during Lent.

A Taco Bell here in Chicago took it one step further: they added an entire Lenten menu!

Thepeug #280382 02/27/08 02:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Quote
A Taco Bell here in Chicago took it one step further: they added an entire Lenten menu!

I hope they include fish tacos! Yum! They are very popular on the West Coast.

Quote
There is also a regional issue -- people in the Midwest tend to go to Church more often than their counterparts on the coasts.

I'd be curious to see what the statistics are for Southern California. Contrary to popular belief everyone (not including the heathen West-side of Los ´┐Żngeles County) seems to go to church on Sunday. Growing up where I did, you were considered odd if you didn't go. As well, the area where I grew up is predominantly 4th or 5th generation Mexican-American and the churches seem to have the same number of Masses as when I was growing up. Thus, they seem to be holding their own.

PrJ #280384 02/27/08 02:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Nan Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by PrJ
Anecdotally (I have not seen any statistics on this), I believe that they also tend to take the fasts more seriously. I was shocked when I moved to the Midwest to see that each fast-food restaurant adds "fish sandwiches" to their menu during Lent.

I don't know when you moved to the Midwest, but fast food places have had fish on their menu for decades. I was probably the only child in the world who looked forward to Lent because I was certain to have fish on Friday.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
P
PrJ Offline
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
To answer your question -- it is probably demographic.

Recent statistics confirm the reality of my posts -- see especially: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/743/united-states-religion

But also see:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-pewrelig08feb26,0,5724684.story

http://badgerherald.com/oped/2008/02/27/american_faith_not_g.php

*One of the most interesting statistics is that 10% of the US population are ex-Catholics.

Last edited by PrJ; 02/27/08 03:24 PM.
PrJ #280481 02/27/08 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
P
PrJ Offline
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
This is the most important statement that illustrates the importance of immigration to the Catholic Church in the USA:

Quote
While nearly one-in-three Americans (31%) were raised in the Catholic faith, today fewer than one-in-four (24%) describe themselves as Catholic. These losses would have been even more pronounced were it not for the offsetting impact of immigration.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
P
PrJ Offline
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by Stephanos I
Pjr
Well that does hold somewhat true, it is an inaccurate picture of things.
There are a lot of conversions among caucasians that have lived here since the Colonies began.
I travel alot and there are places where there are hign numbers of caucasians going to Mass, also there is an increase of Afro Americans.
Stephanos I
In our school the increase has been an eaqual number of caucasians and afro americans and not Latino or Philippino immigrants.

This is not supported by the evidence -- see the following conclusion drawn by recent statistical analysis:

Quote
Another example of the dynamism of the American religious scene is the experience of the Catholic Church. Other surveys -- such as the General Social Surveys, conducted by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago since 1972 -- find that the Catholic share of the U.S. adult population has held fairly steady in recent decades, at around 25%. What this apparent stability obscures, however, is the large number of people who have left the Catholic Church. Approximately one-third of the survey respondents who say they were raised Catholic no longer describe themselves as Catholic. This means that roughly 10% of all Americans are former Catholics. These losses, however, have been partly offset by the number of people who have changed their affiliation to Catholicism (2.6% of the adult population) but more importantly by the disproportionately high number of Catholics among immigrants to the U.S. The result is that the overall percentage of the population that identifies as Catholic has remained fairly stable.

PrJ #280495 02/27/08 04:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 66
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 66
think you forgot a critical part of the argument. The priest's ability to interact and retain a flock. There are priests who, if you search the internet for their name/email have quotes such as, "I work the week-end. I'm a Byzantine Priest."

You say it's a generational thing, well it goes both ways. Compare the activity levels of a priest from past generations to those of today. There is a LACK from within the church itself that also needs to be fixed.

Last edited by Matthew Katona; 02/27/08 04:06 PM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
P
PrJ Offline
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by Matthew Katona
think you forgot a critical part of the argument. The priest's ability to interact and retain a flock. There are priests who, if you search the internet for their name/email have quotes such as, "I work the week-end. I'm a Byzantine Priest."

You say it's a generational thing, well it goes both ways. Compare the activity levels of a priest from past generations to those of today. There is a LACK from within the church itself that also needs to be fixed.

Actually, from a statistical perspective, the person of the priest and/or bishop seems to have little impact on whether people stay or leave, retain or reject. From the data I have seen, connection to community is a key critical identifier but not the priest and/or bishop.

This is of course the difference between statistics and anecdotal evidence. Statistics gives us an objective overview of the entire nation and lets us see what is going on across the variables.

Last edited by PrJ; 02/27/08 06:10 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5