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X. B.

Father Serge,

Vows were permitted under Kyivan Metropolitan St. Petro Mohyla around 1642 as a concession to the Polish - Lithuanian crown in territories where they are regulated for a civil union. Check your state's regulations.

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Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
No language other than Ukrainian? Not even Church Slavonic?

Our prior pastor used to be tickled by the visiting UCs that expressed wonder/delight at our singing in Ukrainian. He would gently explain that no, we weren't, and that they probably didn't either smile

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Originally Posted by Our Lady's slave
Hritzko [ whose post was quoted by Asian Pilgrim ] last posted in 2004

Only if you don't count posts by "Jean Francois".

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Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
"I have regularly attended divine liturgies at Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches my entire life, including in Canada, the United States, France, England, Germany, Italy, and Ukraine. Believe it or not, I have never heard the divine liturgy in any other language than Ukrainian. I have been to weddings where the vows have been in English or French, but no more than that..."

No language other than Ukrainian? Not even Church Slavonic?

I imagine Portugese is used in Brazil. We chant and sing ours in English quite lovely smile . In Ukraine and Poland they use Church Slavonic here and there, and UGCC seminaries in America are required to learn how read and chant it. I like the verncular so no Church Slavonic dose not bother me, just how using modern English instead of middle English to pray dose not bother me either wink (but I admit it is a pretty cool language and useful when praying with other non-Ukrainian Slavs)

I have never witnessed a reicted Divine Liturgy, the only time I have heard of it was at this website.

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I imagine Portugese is used in Brazil.

I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I have met a Ukrainian Catholic nun from Brazil and I thought the Ukrainian community there was as well organised as in Canada, just poorer. I know that the convents seem to be filled with younger nuns. I know there are always collections of used clothing and books for Brazil.

I know the Ukrianian Orthodox Church in Brazil only uses Ukrainian because it is the cultural language of the people and is passed down in the family and church.

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When I attended DL at St. Joseph the Betrothed UGCC in Chicago this past November, it was partially sung, partially recited.

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Judging by the few responses since I resurrected this thread, it seems that recited liturgies still persist. Ouch! eek

If it comes down to a lack of music for an English translation, can't, as I think another poster suggested, just the Ukrainian melodies be sung in English?

I don't understand how this is so complicated in the Ukie Byzantine Catholic church. Do they only want to sing in Ukrainian? Is it easier than English? confused

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Unlike the Slavonic where you have ONE translation for whatever melody fits, in Ukrainian you have the Catholic translation or Orthodox translation, in English you have... 10? 25? 50? variations no matter whose melodies you are using. Get on accepted English Liturgy translation across the board and see how well we will be understood.

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X. B.

Side note:
Akathist; San Jose Soledad


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Unlike the Slavonic where you have ONE translation

There are at least three translations into Church-Slavonic which are used on a daily basis:

a) the pre-Nikonian Muscovite version, still used by the Old-Ritualists,

b) the Nikonian version (which itself has several variations),

c) the Ruthenian versions - please note the plural.

To this one should add the Old Kyivan version which is also pre-Nikonian and closely related to the version retained by the Old-Ritualists. There is also the Serbian variation, which seems to have been the first one printed (in Venice) and is still used to some degree (modern Serbian is increasingly replacing it), and there is the Bulgarian version.

This is not in itself any great surprise, because there are also different versions of the "original" Greek.

However, for those who really want only one version, by all means learn Irish, which has one and only one translation of the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom!

Fr. Serge

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Originally Posted by Etnick
Judging by the few responses since I resurrected this thread, it seems that recited liturgies still persist.

I don't understand how this is so complicated in the Ukie Byzantine Catholic church.


It has been my experience that this is not limited to Ukrainian parishes. I attended Sunday Liturgy at two Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic parishes in 2007 where the Liturgy was recited.

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Ta Criost eirithe�

Thank you Father Serge for keeping me on the true path. One across the board English Divine Liturgy usage for all North American Orthodox Catholics English language users would be nice. Another for the King�s English as my Canadian cousins tell me the two are not a common tongues.

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Quote
I imagine Portugese is used in Brazil. We chant and sing ours in English quite lovely . In Ukraine and Poland they use Church Slavonic here and there, and UGCC seminaries in America are required to learn how read and chant it. I like the verncular so no Church Slavonic dose not bother me, just how using modern English instead of middle English to pray dose not bother me either (but I admit it is a pretty cool language and useful when praying with other non-Ukrainian Slavs)

Wow! Where have you heard the Lord's Prayer in Middle English? wink

Quote
Oure fadir that art in heuenes halwid be thi name; thi reume or kyngdom come to be. Be thi wille don in herthe as it is doun in heuene. Yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred. And foryeue to us oure dettis that is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris that is to men that han synned in us. And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.

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Originally Posted by Larry L
Originally Posted by Etnick
Judging by the few responses since I resurrected this thread, it seems that recited liturgies still persist.

I don't understand how this is so complicated in the Ukie Byzantine Catholic church.


It has been my experience that this is not limited to Ukrainian parishes. I attended Sunday Liturgy at two Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic parishes in 2007 where the Liturgy was recited.

That's a shocker! eek I've heard of Ruthenian parishes doing recited WEEKDAY liturgies, but I've never heard of a recited Ruthenian Sunday liturgy.

What parishes do this? confused

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Originally Posted by Byzantophile
Wow! Where have you heard the Lord's Prayer in Middle English? wink

Never had (until you postd it), but I do admit using early modern English wink

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