www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall How could this be allowed?

I am utterly at a loss to understand this.


The picture is in the story.


http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2008/03/radical-orthodo.html

Also, read what this guy has said

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week707/commentary.html

Perhaps he told the bishop that he was "orthodox" and not Anglican.

I'd like to give His Grace the benefit of the doubt.

He was invited to speak to this conference at the Catholic University of Lviv's Institute of Ecumenical Studies:

http://www.ecumenicalstudies.org.ua/eng/research/conferences.roundtables/radical.orthodoxy/

I'm fairly certain they knew who he was since Bishop Lonchyna gave a welcome speech for him as the guest speaker. I have never heard of the "radical orthodoxy" movement the conference was centered around, but if you read the PBS interview with Mr. Milbank he says this

There is a mistaken view among many orthodox Catholics that the "Radical Orthodoxy" movement is a friend of traditional apostolic Christianity in its Catholic and Orthodox expressions, mainly because of Catherine Pickstock's apparently "Traditionalist" views of the Roman liturgy.

In fact, the "Radical" is equally as potent as the "Orthodoxy" in the equation, and this group is very liberal in its views of women's ordination and homosexualiy.

Knowing Bishop Hlib - and I have known His Grace for many years - there is no doubt in my mind that one of two things happened:

a) the Bishop may have thought that the communicant was Eastern Orthodox (an expression such as "Radical Orthodoxy" could easily give that impression), or

b) someone deliberately deceived the Bishop.

The picture does not tell us precisely when this improper reception of Holy Communion occurred. If, as is possible, it was at the very beginning of the conference, the Bishop might not have known just who this person was.

Fr. Serge

If he believed he was Orthodox, he would have known he cannot receive due to the regulations of that church. I would also assume no cleric would commune somebody if they had no idea who they were or when they last went to confession.

I don't believe either of those was case though. Mr. Milbank was a speaker invited to the conference at the Catholic University of Lviv. It says the Ukrainian Catholic Archbishop of Lviv was also present for this.


http://ruskij-sion.blogspot.com/2008/03/radical-orthodoxy.html

I have a hard time believing they all didn't know who he was and what he stands for.

In the thread Simple Sinner posted about the consecrations I thought some of the accusations were completely outlandish, but in light of this they are making more sense.

I believe Fr. Serge knows the man personally and therefore is a much more reliable source to form an opinion on foreign ecclesial affairs than obscure articles on from the Internet.


Good luck to the priest with 300 parishoners remembering who and wo did not have confession in the last week. In Catholicism it is the responsibility of the person taking communion to know whether to take communion or not.

Also in Catholicism an Eastern Orthodox Christian can take communion at a Catholic Liturgy. The priest cannot refuse that Eastern Orthodox person communion just because the Eastern Orthodox Church forbids it.

The "obscure" articles include the web site of the Institute of Ecumenical Studies at the Catholic University of Lviv itself. It states who Mr. Milbank is and where he's from.

X. B.

Perusing the above suggested hits of information, when I first saw �R O�, I assumed it meant Russian Orthodox, so I assumed at most defensive reading was to be used. Then I read about a Radical Orthodox movement. My first thought was so much for the museum piece accusations towards the Eastern Church. My current thought is how has this effected the Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky Institute of Eastern Christian Studies out of Ottawa, their faculty and alumni? It would bring into perspective the actions of a couple area priests.

I don't understand the connection with the Sheptytsky Institute which is a part of St. Paul's University, a Roman Catholic institution? How could they be blamed or contaminated with these events in Lviv. I suspect the theological faculty at St. Paul's University have a better grasp of the situation.

I am beginning to wonder if this entire flap is not an elaborate April Fool's Day prank.

Bishop Hlib is not now and never has been a "Monsignor", nor has he the slightest wish to be one. Since the Internet source miscalls him that twice in the space of a short "report", I'm inclined to doubt the veracity of the whole thing. Anyone who knows more about computers than I do could have faked both the picture and the report. I tend to keep track of Russian/Ukrainian web sites and have never even heard of this "Ruskij Sion" one.

Moreover, I note from what purports to be the conference schedule that this two-day gathering had no Divine Liturgy or other religious service.

Fr. Serge

Unless the times newspaper and the Institute of Ecumenical Studies at Lviv are given to April's fools day pranks, I would tend to doubt it's a joke. The Times article refers to Bishop Hlib as a bishop. I can't imagine any possible reason for them misrepresenting what is printed in their article.

The web site of the Catholic University of Lviv where this event was held published the schedule

http://www.ecumenicalstudies.org.ua/eng/research/conferences.roundtables/radical.orthodoxy/

It says


The comments in the Times article give credence to the statement in the article that Bishop Hlib did in fact commune Mr. Milbank with full knowledge of who he was. That makes sense since Bishop Hlib introduced him at the conference according to the reports.

Whether or not this person received communion is only one issue. The other is what is this event taking place at that institution for.

X. B.

Halia,

Excuse me but I did not ask becouse you don't undersand, I asked because I am one of the members of the US UGCC who is being kept in the dark. The Institute is hailed by its alumni as the best training grounds, then when questioned we are billied as irrelevant.

Is there a conection at least of principal? What will this mean to us in the corrals, I'm sorry pews?

anyone know if this Professor has converted to the Catholic Church or one of the ecclesial communities allowed limited reception under some circumstance?

I am only becoming increasingly convinced that this is all someone's idea of a joke. Bishop Hlib would hardly attempt to serve Pontifical Divine Liturgy - and in L'viv, of all places, at the Ukrainian Catholic University - in the space of 60 minutes.

For that matter, a general ecumenical gathering is not an appropriate time for a Divine Liturgy - because some of the participants are bound to be uncomfortable. Our service-books provide votive Molebens, which are not Eucharistic and which would be quite suitable for such a gathering.

Obviously, this joke is in the most execrable taste.

When the Bishop was here in Dublin in late January, he served a Divine Liturgy for the repose of the soul of the father of one of our parishioners. Since the man had died and been buried recently, many poeple came to the Liturgy. Bishop Hlib took good care to announce that those who were Catholic were welcome to receive Holy Communion under the usual conditions.

The Bishop and I are frequently in touch, and I have not the slightest reason to believe that His Grace has changed either his teaching or his practice on this point.

Fr. Serge