www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Saturday night Divne Liturgy/Mass

I do not recall ever seeing a Saturday night Divine Liturgy/Mass listed for an Eastern Catholic Church. Is this not a practice as is found in most Roman Catholic Churhes or is it a matter of insufficient numbers to warrant the additional mass?

Unfortunately I've not only seen it announced; on rare occasions when I was someone's guest I found myself required to serve it. I don't recommend it to much of anyone.

Many Latin parishes report that the Saturday evening Mass attracts the largest attendance of the weekend. Interesting that the same parishes would assure us that it would be impossible to have Vespers because nobody would come!

Priests who have actually tried to analyse the pattern tell me that it's a matter of "convenience"; people already go out on Saturday afternoon to do the shopping, then go straight to the Saturday evening Mass to "get the obligation out of the way".

This, of course, rejects the significance of Sunday, and indicates that the Saturday evening congregation wants the shortest possible Mass. I'm surprised they haven't demanded that one be enabled to "fulfill the obligation" by television (presumably taking up the collection by PayPal).

Even Pope Benedict has not yet found the courage to reverse the authorization for the Saturday evening Mass. But somehow it must be reversed.

I could go on, but I've offered my opinion.

Father Serge

Quite a few Ukrainian Parishes have Saturday night Divine Liturgy, usually in English.

Deplorable of them. Somehow I doubt that the congregation on Sundays in such parishes is so severely overflowing the church edifice that there is no alternative but a Liturgy on Saturday evening.

Fr. Serge

Quickly skimming over the forum, I thought this title was 'Saturday Night Live'..Ofcourse I felt silly when I saw the real title, but then again, upon reading it more carefully, one might, (if one were so inclined to such unnecessary attention grabbing signs outside a church) actually call that Saturday night Mass or Liturgy: Saturday Night Live!



LOL!! Again, I cannot help but be amused and laugh at your delightful Irish wit, Father Serge...it is always a welcome read...B U T...

On the other hand, perhaps what Father and I have suggested, in pun ofcourse, might give those non-traditional folk an idea or two. *EEK* !! So, let's hope they are not reading!

Fr. Serge and Two Lungs-

Thanks for responding. Actually, I am glad to hear there are some options for Saturday night with the EC churches. I thought maybe that was never an option.

Serge, as you indicated at times it is a matter of convenience for Saturday night. However, more often than not it can be a matter of choice for other reasons. When we are home we attend mass at a neighborhood Roman Catholic Church. At this church the Saturday night crowd is older and typically without small children, so you can actually hear what is going on and do not have to contend with crying babies and loud small children, so we definitely get more out of it. We raised 4 children who are all now grown and we appreciate a more relaxed environment (except when the grandkids visit), where we can be attentive. In this instance, I feel I get more out of Saturday night Mass. I would say at this church that attendance is substantially heavier on Sunday, mainly because of the addition of the children present.

Travel can also sometimes makes it more difficult to attend a Sunday mass. Unfortunately, on occasions I or my wife have to travel on Sunday.

I would also add that Sunday is not exempt from the problems of the lunch crowd. At our neighborhood parish, there is sometimes a swift exodus by parish attendees to beat the Protestants to the local eateries for lunch after mass. For a priest, it must be incredibly frustrating to see the Mass taken so lightly.

With that beng said, I appreciate where you are coming from and agree that attendance at mass should not be something that we squeeze in around other activities. It should be a priority.

I always find it intersting to hear things from another's perspective. It keep me thinking. I appreciate your insight.

Thanks again for your responses.

JW55:

May I remind you that you are addressing Father Serge Keleher or Father Archimandrite Serge Keleher. On this forum, respect for clergy and their office is something we take very seriously. Please don't let this breach of respect happen again.

BOB
Moderator

You know I understand the thing about Saturday night DL. However, as someone who was bedfast for 13 years, I also understand the need for it. Very seldom was I able to attend the morning DL, occassionaly when I could go it would be evening. As we get older, especially the colder climates, it is so hard for people to move - literally. An example is a case where a priest has two parishes. He also has cancer, one parish he has set for Sat. eve, the other for Sun. morning. He physically can't do them both on the same day. But, guess what, the attendance in the one moved to Sat. eve has increased more than 50%. WHY? The older folks can get there! Some that have not been able to come in years, are now able to make it. They had even put chair lifts on the steps outside to help them. That made it much easier for those who came, but it was the Sat. eve. DL that enabled them to return. I truly understand their dillema. I love Sunday mornings, but I also love to be able to receive our Jesus, even if is on a lowly Sat. eve because that is when I am able to get there.

Sorry if I have ruffled someone feathers, but I our God is so compassionate. Seems to me his love prevails.

My dear Pani Rose,

You are ofcourse, so right. I am glad that you spoke up. The Church should be organic and be able to serve the spiritual needs of the faithful, since that is the very reason it exists!

Orthodox churches never have Divine Liturgies other than in the morning, but sometimes I wish they did once in a while...it may not be 'traditional', but there are indeed folks out there with a myriad of special needs that would surely benefit.

Just hope that no one will name it 'Saturday Night Live'.

In Christ,
Alice

The whole idea of allowing the Saturday night liturgy was that in Jewish thought the day started with the setting of the sun. So, if we are going to allow this, then I think that the Vigil Liturgy should begin only after sundown!

I mean how can a 4:00 pm Mass in the summertime be considered to count for the next day when the sun won't go down until 9:00 pm?

Certainly there are people with special needs, and certainly the Church has an obligation to try to meet those needs. Trouble arises when we start acting as though the entire population had the same special needs (in which case there would be nothing "special" about it). The stair lift, for example, is a most praiseworthy and helpful effort when used for those who otherwise would find it difficult, even impossible, to come to Church. Providing for the deaf is unquestionably something we should do, even in small parishes (a big parish can better afford and use some specialized forms of technology, but even the smallest parish can usually manage to arrange to have someone do a simultaneous translation of the Scriptural lessons and the sermon - and the announcements, so that everyone can feel that this is their community and they are not just tolerated on suffrance).

So what of the Saturday Liturgy matter? Well, here are a few thoughts:

a) do NOT skip Vespers - this is, after all, the form of worship which the Church appoints for Saturday evening.

b) if the priest discerns that there really is a need for a Saturday evening Liturgy, this can be done in such a way as to make it clear that the Liturgy is being held at such an hour for the benefit of those who have a special need for it (long before Vatican II there was a special Mass in a couple of Roman Catholic parishes in New York around the newspaper publishers, since a significant number of people did not get off work until 2 or 3 AM, while the actual printers would just be coming into work, and both contingents wanted to come to Mass but also needed - physically needed - to be able to sleep late in the morning). This was not advertised to the public at large, and was not for the benefit of all the Catholic drunks at that hour on a Sunday morning in New York, but it was made known to those who had to work at such unusual times, and they in turn were made welcome - even to the point that the parishes involved would often serve a hot breakfast after Mass and then send the faithful home to bed. The people very much appreciated this consideration and kindness.

Pastoral discernment, balance, generosity, and keeping things in order can do quite a lot. Now, about that hot breakfast . . .

Fr. Serge

I doubt that JW55 intended any disrespect.
I suspect Fr. Serge has suffered worse slights.
I suggest that Moderators consider the use of
personal notes to issue this kind of reprimand
rather than criticize the person in public.
It might be more in the spirit of fraternal
Christian correction.

Fr. Serge,

I think most Greek Catholic parishes here in the US had no choice. The Latin parish down the street started having them, and parishioners started going, the Greek Catholic pastors saw this as a threat, and instituted Sat. Night Liturgy. If you took it away now it would be a disaster causing losses we are ill prepared to sustain. People go to Latin parishes now because they are 5 minutes away rather than the 15 minutes their Byzantine parish is. I live ten miles away from my parish, it takes me 10-15 minutes to get there. I pass four Latin Churches to get there. I have people who live in the same town as I do who consider it too much of an imposition to drive the ten miles to our Byzantine parish so they go to the nearest Latin parish most of the time. They come for Pascha and Chrsitmas, they want their baptisms, marriages, and funerals from our parish, but their weekly attendance and envelope go to the Latin parish. This is the reality of what we are dealing with. America is about convenience, for better or worse. Saturady Night Liturgy is a small compromise to make in my opinion.

Fr. Deacon Lance

This shows that we still have an opportunity to catechize our people -- especially our youth.

Fr. Serge what is your opinion of the western liturgical day?
Do you think the west needs to start having Vespers and Matins and maybe only one liturgy?
Seeking you opinion,
David