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Mar 25th, 2025
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Sadly I'm not surprised  Everyone there seems to be determined to hang on to what they seem to feel are ' their rights ' - and if these happen to conflict in some way with ' someone else's rights ' - then that's just too bad . Argh
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I just saw it on BBC and thought to myself: "here we go again"...
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Im not surprised either, but very disappointed. It's important we pray for all involved, and to do that in such a holy place...what a mess..
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For it is love that I desire, not sacrifice, and knowledge of God rather than holocausts. Hosea 6:6 NAB
And where else is it that God says He does not take delight in sacrifices and takes no pleasure in the animals taken from the flock?
I wonder if it ever occurred to our brethren that God finds our liturgical celebrations to be utterly worthless when we don't take the teaching He tries to do in and through them to heart. Not to mention taking that teaching out into the big world outside our own communities and applying it to every man, woman, and child we meet--not to leave out those who follow Christ and who may belong to other ethnic or Church communities different from ours?
Lord, please melt the hearts of those who are stone cold. Give fleshly hearts to those with hearts of stone. Grant us all enough time to repent the many times we have acted in similar fashion before You call us to account.
Kyrie eleison. Hospodi pomilui. Lord have mercy on us.
In Christ,
BOB
PS: What must the world think? What does this do to undermine the work of the Holy Spirit and further the spread of the Gospel to the ends of the earth?
Last edited by theophan; 11/09/08 08:41 PM.
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Sad to say, this has just about become an annual event.
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They look like angels, but squabble like demons...
Lord have mercy!
Fr. Deacon Daniel
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Ah, yes. I know a gentleman in London (yes, there are a few gentlemen in London!) who was closely and heavily involved in the renovations in the Church of the Resurrection a few years ago. He chooses his words with great care, but without actually saying so he managed to make it clear that the biggest headache was getting the various Christian judicatories with rights in that Church to agree on even the most picayune matters. ["Picayune" is a small town in Mississippi, in case you're wondering.]
Don't tell anybody but about 40 years ago three colleagues of mine (Greek-Catholic Priests) managed to serve Divine Liturgy at the actual Tomb. They did this by slipping in the necessary equipment, then having two of the priests (these priests were not exactly emaciated) kneel down throughout the Liturgy, "sub-singing" the service, while the third was kneeling at the time and was the main celebrant.
Me, I have a simpler approach - I simply served in the Greek-Catholic Church on the Via Dolorosa.
I've often wanted to organize a parish pilgrimage to the Holy Land, but it is just too dangerous and I don't care to accept the responsibility.
Fr. Serge
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["Picayune" is a small town in Mississippi, in case you're wondering.] Originally, a low denomination Spanish coin. From Wikipedia: A picayune was a Spanish coin, worth half a real. Its name derives from the French picaillon, which is itself from the Provençal picaioun, meaning "small coin." By extension, picayune can mean "trivial" or "of little value."
Aside from being used in Spanish territories, the picayune and other Spanish currency was used throughout colonial America. Spanish dollars were made legal tender in the United States by an act on February 9, 1793 until it was demonetized on February 21, 1857. The coin's name first appeared in Florida and Louisiana where its value was worth approximately six and a quarter cents, and whose name was sometimes used in place of the U.S. nickel.
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It is sad beyond belief and a horrible witness for the world by clergy of the Apostolic Churches. Each year, sometimes more than once, - the Latins, the Greeks, the Armenians, the Copts, the Ethiopians - they have all participated in one or more of these sacriligeous disputes, invariably ending in what most resembles street-corner thuggery.
That they can hold their heads up and proceed to conduct divine services after so dishonoring a Holy Place is incredibly hypocritical. That the respective hierarchs - of any of the Churches whose clergy have participated in these events - have yet to ever publicly denounce the unholy acts perpetrated by their clerics is equally disturbing to me.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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That the respective hierarchs - of any of the Churches whose clergy have participated in these events - have yet to ever publicly denounce the unholy acts perpetrated by their clerics is equally disturbing to me. This exact thought occurred to me as well. The whole thing is absolutely shameful.
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This happens every 6-8 months, a brawl breaks out. I'm sure pop culture in the US would love to see a reality show about this!  Monomakh
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Dear Friends,
Sad, but true.
However, I know atheists and agnostics who get very upset when religious people get like this - to them, it is like a "proof" of the validity of religion when people will fight for what they believe.
The history of the Armenians in Orthodox countries like Greece and Ukraine/Russia is not a happy one all around.
Over time, even the word "Armenian" became synonymous with "heretic" and worse.
To call someone an "Armenian" in those lands was and I believe still is quite offensive as a result.
We even read in the Kyivan Caves Patericon about how an Armenian Christian came into the cell of one of the Fathers - and when that monastic Elder found out that his visitor was an Armenian (and a member of the excommunicated Armenian Church), he said to him, "How dare you enter my cell so as to sully it with your presence!" The Father then took holy water and blessed his cell . . .
I would suggest that what we see here is not so much inter-religious strife as intercultural strife that has been going on between Armenians and the Eastern Orthodox of specific national groups for quite some time.
Alex
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