www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Liturgical Colour of Vestments

The Antiochian Diocese of Wichita offers these charts:

http://www.networks-now.net/litresswraoc/TNLitColor.htm

Thank you for your cromulent post has really embiggend me. Jebediah would be proud.

I have an idea that I think would be neat. Maybe a parish website could show the priest vested in his vestments at the altar and have a caption stating which feasts he would wear such a vestment. Then there could be multiple pictures, one for each vestment and that would kind of give a taste of the yearly cycle that the parish goes through. What do you think?

Praise from a fellow Springfielder is always appreciated. At to your suggestion, that's a good idea but I don't have the computer skills to make it happen.

Get me the pictures and I can make the site.

I can't believe that the good folks on this forum are quoting the notorious fraud Hans Sprungfeld!

Dave

What do you mean?

Fr. Hieromonk Ambrose noted that, in the Russian tradition(s):










I was recently looking through the photo gallery of the OCA website and I noticed that Met. Jonah served Divine Liturgy at St. Nicholas Cathedral this past Christmas Day (New Calendar) in red vestments. In contrast, his predecessor Met. Herman served in previous Christmas (and Pascha) Divine Liturgies in the same cathedral in white vestments. (Of course, I've never been there: I'm just relying on the OCA photo gallery)

Interestingly, Met. Herman's predecessor, Met. Theodosius, served the Divine Liturgy of Christmas 2001 in red vestments (as per the photo gallery). What did he wear on Paschal Divine Liturgies?

It seems that there is a swinging between "Muscovite" and "South-West Rus" traditions in the OCA!

ROCOR seems to prefer the South-West Rus tradition (white for Pascha and Christmas) when it comes to liturgical colors. Why is this so?

In the Russian Church Abroad, our Seminary is Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville, New York. It is run by the Brotherhood of St Job of Pochaev that resides now in Holy Trinity Monastery. The Brotherhood was originally from Carpatho-Russia, and while identifying itself with the Great Russian tradition, maintained a number of Carpathian liturgical usages. Because nearly all our seminary educated clergy received their education at Jordanville, these Carpathian usages are maintained in most of our parishes also. I, for one, despite my contentment with the reunification of the Russian Church Abroad with the Moscow Patriarchate, hope never to have to wear red vestments for Pascha. I am quite happy to wear white.

Fr David Straut

Father, in the end the Muscovites may prevail!

Have you noticed that in Russia even the candles are often coloured red at Pascha time?

I'd like to know why the Muscovites love red so much, so much as to make it "displace" white, the ancient color for Pascha and Christmas. Yes, I've heard about the "huge numbers of red vestments given as a gift" theory, but it simply doesn't make sense. Surely a mere gift will not force through a change in the traditions? And there are many other opportunities to wear red in the course of the year.

Personally I get quiet annoyed with this continual reference to the Russian Orthodox Church as "Muscovite". Until 1918 the city had not been the capital of Russia for over 200 years.

Red square if you did not know was called red Square long before any communists were on the earth, the Russian word красная (krasnaya) can mean either "red" or "beautiful" (the latter meaning is archaic).

The area to the south of the current independent nation of the 'White Rus' was known in the ancient past as 'Red Rus' and is now part of Ukraine.

That red is the colour used in Jerusalem and Mount Athos may have a lot to do with their practice of using red. It is also possible that being on the outer edge of the Byzantine liturgical world they still hold to older customs and practices.

Red may be from the Jerusalem Tradition, as the Syriac custom - which is probably closest (Assyrian may be just as close) to the Aramaic speaking Jewish custom rarely finds a colour OTHER THAN red. There is no rule that blue or white cannot be used, and they are found, but red is the "norm" in practice.

Pilgrim,

It was a joke. As memory serves, Hans Sprungfeld was a character in "The Simpsons" cartoon series - an evil alter ego of Jedidiah Springfield, founder of the town in which the Simpsons resided.

Many years,

Neil

The two poles of Orthodoxy these days are Muscovy and Micklegarth.

(emphasis added)

Ok - that one is obscure enough to cause some head-scratching

Many years,

Neil