www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography Apostles - Reliable way to tell them apart?

Hello,

Provided there are no obvious attributes (for example, Peter's keys, gospel books, etc.) and no monograms, are there ways to tell the apostles apart in group icons? Specifically, I'm interested in the Descent of the Holy Spirit icon.

For example, Andrew often appears to be older and a little haggard, Matthew seems typically to be older, Paul is usually somewhat bald, etc.

Do the colors of their chitons or himatia give them away? Any other way to tell them apart?

Thanks in advance,
Booth
Infrequent Poster

Maybe this site can aid you.

Twelve Apostles [atheavensgate.com]

Ray

Christ is born!! Glorify Him!!

Do either of you know what St. Bartholomew was beaten to death with? In the icon, there doesn't seem to be any indication.

In my birth parish church, there is a large statue of St. Bartholomew that has him holding a large, heavy wooden article that is smaller at the one end and much larger at the other. It appears to be about four feet long--some kind of huge club.

BOB

Bob,

St Bartholomew is said to have been first flayed alive and then crucified upside down; for the first reason, he is the patron saint of tanners. Many representations depict him either as holding his own skin or the knife with which he was flayed; I don't think I've even seen one of him with a club.

Many years,

Neil

All the information you want can be found in the iconographer's manual:


The ‘Painter’s Manual’ of Dionysius of Fourna. London: Sagittaurius Press, 1978.

Please consult it.

Booth

I have often wondered too - but honestly I would have difficulty in justifying paying for the book that Miller recommends to satisfy my curiosity

Page 52 of The ‘Painter’s Manual’ of Dionysius of Fourna lists "The twelve apostles and their characteristics."

Oddly, it lists Mark and Luke as apostles and leaves out Jude Thaddeus and one of the James (I'm not sure which one). Information about these apostles, however, is available on the following page under "The seventy apostles" - unless I am misunderstanding what I read. So, from the "twelve apostles" section, here goes:

"Peter, an old man with a rounded beard, holding an epistle which says: "Peter the apostle of Jesus Christ."

"Paul, bald, with a brown, rush-like beard and grey hair, holding the 14 epistles rolled up and tied together."

"John the Divine, an old man, bald, with a long sparse beard, holding a Gospel."

"Matthew the evangelist, an old man with a long beard, holding a Gospel."

"Andrew, an old man with curly hair and his beard divided into two points; he holds a cross and a bound scroll."

"Simon Zelotes, an old man, bald, with a rounded beard."

"James, a young man with an incipient beard."

"Bartholomew, a young man with an incipient beard."

"Thomas, a young man, beardless."

"Phillip, a young man, beardless."

Apparently, it is not possible to differentiate between James (whichever James this refers to) and Bartholomew, nor between Thomas and Phillip - at least not from the information provided in this section of this book.

And now, from the "seventy apostles" section:

"James, the Brother of God, an old man with a long beard."

"James Alphaeus, a young man with a pointed beard; one of the 12."

"Judas, the Brother of the Lord, a young man with an incipient beard"

From the notes on the previously quoted sections from The ‘Painter’s Manual’ of Dionysius of Fourna:

This is very helpful information, thank you!

I don't know how much these will help, but here goes:

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/reference/saint-iconography.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_symbology

http://christianart.blogspot.com/2006/10/iconography-of-saints.html

Perhaps you could simply share your knowledge of the subject?

I agree with Father Deacon. Most of us are here to find out some answers to questions, not to be told to go purchase books they may or may not have the answer we are looking for. If you can share from your experience or give us a quick article link to read that would be much better. The book you recommended definitely does not fit within my budget at this time, and I am sure many others can say the same.

I've not seen this book but there is a more recent printing available:

The Painter's Manual of Dionysius of Fourna (Paperback)
by Dionysios (Author), Paul Hetherington (Author)

List Price: $18.00
Price: $14.40 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping

Amazon link [amazon.com]