The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
mrat01, ChildofCyril, Selah, holmeskountry, PittsburghBob
6,200 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 454 guests, and 89 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,542
Posts417,787
Members6,200
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
Finally, a bishops' conference has the courage to take on a movement that, until very recently, has been practically above public criticism in the Catholic Church despite the numerous errors and dubious practices associated with it. The specific condemnation of the practice of "family tree healing" -- very common in charismatic circles -- is most necessary.

http://www.ucanews.com/2009/01/09/bishops-provide-guidelines-for-charismatic-renewal-movement/

Quote
KOREA Bishops Provide Guidelines For Charismatic Renewal Movement

January 9, 2009

SEOUL (UCAN) -- Korean bishops, in a recent document, mentioned certain negative aspects of the charismatic movement in the Church here, while at the same time acknowledging its contributions to Church life.

The Committee for the Doctrine of the Faith of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of Korea (CBCK) says that although the movement has helped to renew the faith of Catholics, some aspects have been questionable.

Its 88-page document, Right Understanding of the Holy Spirit, cites certain misunderstandings of the faith and unethical behavior of some followers, the abuse of spiritual gifts, a fanatical atmosphere at some prayer meetings, and deviation from Church teaching by some laypeople, priests and Religious.

The document, which the committee issued on Dec. 24, attributes decades of growth in the spiritual renewal movement, which focuses on the power of the Holy Spirit to transform lives, to members' dedication. However, it pointed out that some followers have pursued fame, money and privilege, which it calls "a great obstacle" to the movement.

The bishops' committee says some of these people have sought money from people, claiming they possess the gift of healing or prophecy.

It also maintains that some followers have sought spiritual gifts for personal gain rather than for the common good, and that others have focused on prayers for healing physical illnesses rather than for inner renewal.

Committee secretary Father Benedict Son Hee-song told UCA News on Jan. 7 that the document aims to provide guidance for the movement's development.

It has reached a stage where one can see its strengths and weakness, explained Father Son, a professor at Seoul archdiocese's major seminary. "So we need to review the movement and direct its future development."

The Church official acknowledged the movement "has improved in many ways since its early stages, but needs to make greater effort to follow Church teaching."

Nonetheless, Father Thomas Oh Tae-soon, president of the National Catholic Charismatic Service Association (NCCSA), says he remains confident about the movement. It has been on the right track for a long time, he told UCA News, adding that the document does not perturb him.

Paul Chung Ok-dong, former president of the Seoul Catholic Charismatic Service Association, admits that in the 1970s and 1980s, when the movement was growing rapidly, quite a number of followers sought money and fame.

"These days few do so, though sometimes I hear some of them still do it in secret," said the 73-year-old layman, who got involved in the charismatic renewal in 1974. He added, "I think the document is timely but it sounds a little bit negative toward charismatics."

In addition to explaining the nature of the Holy Spirit and how to discern spiritual gifts, the document warns against "family-tree healing," practiced in some charismatic prayer meetings.

Proponents of this practice believe that the sins of ancestors are transmitted to descendents, who therefore cannot help but commit misdeeds and, as a result, suffer misfortunes such as illness, suicide and miscarriage.

The document urges "all Catholics not to accept such a false claim," pointing out that it runs counter to Church teaching on the grace received through the Sacrament of Baptism, which cleanses all sins including original sin.

The Korean bishops discussed the matter during their October 2007 plenary assembly and warned Catholics that "family-tree healing" goes against Church teaching on prayers for healing.

According to an NCCSA official, all 15 dioceses in the country have charismatic organizations that conduct regular prayer meetings at the parish and diocesan levels.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 1
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 1
What's so "charismatic" about the Charismatic Movement, anyway?

My Oxford English Dictionary defines charisma as being "compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others."

Hm, by that definition, I would place the Church's traditional liturgies, both Western and Eastern, as being FAR MORE charismatic than the liturgies associated with Charismaticism.

In my opinion, the movement should be stripped of its title, since it deceitfully implies that the fulness of charisma wrought by the Holy Spirit is somehow absent or lacking in non-Charismatic Catholicism and, by deduction, absent or lacking in all of the Church's liturgies for nearly 2000 years.

Alexis

Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 01/09/09 04:52 PM.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
I am not going to make a categorical statement about the Charismatic movement. I will only note that its roots are in sectarian, fundamentalist pentecostalism of the late 19th century and was imported into mainline protestant churches and the Catholic Church during the 1960s and 1970s. If the practices that are distinctive of the Charismatic movement were important or necessary in the Church, they would have been found in the Tradition. As it is, the closest ancient group to the Charismatics is the Montanists.

Joe

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 1
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 1
Maybe there'll be an effort, then, to canonize Tertullian? wink

Alexis

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Actually the charisma are found in tradition as being exhibited in the lives of the saints.
Stephanos I

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,885
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,885
I know of a number of people who went via the Charismatic Movement into Evangelican Protestant churches here in Australia. We even had a migration from one side of the country to the other. This resulted in stricter supervision of Charismatic groups afterwards here in Perth, Western Australia. The usual story with the horse having already bolted when the rules were issued. Thankfully there have been no repeat performances.

cool

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
I think one needs to distinguish between the "Charismatic Movement" and the exercise of the charisms of the Holy Spirit. Its hard to envision a St. Seraphim of Sarov at a "charismatic prayer group meeting," yet no one would doubt that he was "full of the Holy Spirit!" The movement itself brings a renewed emphasis on personal conversion and the rediscovery of certain charisms of the Holy Spirit especially among the laity (the theology of certain aspects of this "rediscovery" is certainly a point of dispute among well-meaning Catholics and Orthodox). That said, certainly not all of the practices of all of its membership nor its leadership reflect the authentic work of the Holy Spirit.

Also, not every fruit of the CCRM has been bad, although there certainly have been excesses. In certain parts of the world, the CCRM has been responsible for a renewed emphasis on Catholic evangelization and even a recovery of traditional faith and practices.

While there are some external similarities to Montanism, similarities do not necessarily mean sameness. So the movement is neither easily nor neatly categorized nor should it be simply dismissed, IMHO, as heretical or schismatic. The bishops here are taking the right approach. Kudos to them for offering these pastoral corrections. I hope the faithful in this movement take it - and other points - to heart.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 218
P
Member
Member
P Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 218
Family Tree healing sounds alot like Mormon baptism of the dead.

Who comes up with this stuff? Don't they actually read Christian theology?

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Originally Posted by Prester John
Family Tree healing sounds alot like Mormon baptism of the dead.

Who comes up with this stuff? Don't they actually read Christian theology?

Father John,

I thought the same thing at first. Here is a website on FTH:

http://www.familytreehealing.com/

Here is one that is critical of FTH:

http://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit12.htm

God bless,

Fr. Deacon Daniel



Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Another article:

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=25913

Quote
Korean Bishops Condemn 'Family Tree' Healing Practice
11/15/2007 UCANews (www.ucanews.com [ucanews.com])

Healing the "family tree", or "generational healing" spread from the United states to Korea. The Korean bishops express deep concerns that some Catholics have deviated from Church teaching and issue a pastoral directive against it.

SEOUL, KOREA (UCAN) - Bishop Paul Choi Deog-ki of Suwon has issued a pastoral directive warning Catholics against "family-tree healing" practices, which he says runs counter to Church teaching.

Bishop Choi released his four-page directive on Nov. 2, All Souls' Day. The document was also published in the Nov. 11 issue of the diocesan weekly bulletin.

"Recently, the so-called 'family-tree healing' practice has been spreading among some faithful in Suwon diocese. It came from overseas and combines Church teachings with non-traditional teachings," he wrote in his letter.

The bishop speaks of concerns that this wrong practice could spread "especially in November, the month dedicated to praying for the souls in Purgatory."

According to the directive, proponents of this practice believe that people inherit their ancestors' sins, which cause chronic family problems.

The proponents of "family-tree healing," also called "generational healing, argue that if people do not pray for their ancestors' souls and offer Masses for the removal of their sins, these problems cannot be solved.

Bishop Choi explains that "family-tree healing is a mixture of traditional Church teaching" on the souls of the dead and Oriental religious worldviews. "The belief that people inherit their ancestors' sins is not part of the Catholic faith," he stresses.

He points out that sins belong solely to the individual and cannot be inherited. Furthermore, baptism frees all Catholics from their past sins, even original sin, he points out.

In his directive, the prelate prohibits meetings where erroneous "family-tree healing" beliefs are propagated. He urges Catholics not to participate in these gathering and to report such cases to parish priests.

Father John Moon Hee-jong, evangelization director of Suwon diocese, told UCA News on Nov. 9: "For the past few years, the Church has been monitoring the family-tree healing practice among the faithful with concern. Bishop Choi issued the directive to warn the faithful not to subscribe to this belief."

The priest, who teaches liturgy at Suwon Catholic University, added that the diocese issued the directive after theological, doctrinal and pastoral investigations into the phenomenon over the past year.

According to Father Moon, "family-tree healing" came to Korea from the United States and has been practiced mostly at charismatic gatherings.

Proponents play on people's fears by using "threatening words," he added, saying the Church "has to stop them to protect the faith life of Catholics."

He pointed out that Catholicism "is a religion of hope, as believers wait for the resurrection of all people, following Jesus Christ."

The Korean bishops, during their plenary assembly in October, expressed concern that some Catholics have deviated from Church teaching through the misguided "family-tree healing" practice.

They said it arises from an incorrect interpretation of the doctrine of original sin and an incorrect view of the world to come, adding that these errors are combined with shamanism.

As of 2006, Suwon diocese had 672,803 Catholics served by two bishops and 386 priests in 173 parishes and 28 mission stations, according to the Korean bishops' conference. The diocese has the second-highest number of Catholics in South Korea after Seoul archdiocese.


Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Actually it was the Linn brother's that made it popular, I beleive it was in the 70's. Im not sure but I think that subsequently both left the Church and married.
I was always suspicious of their teaching.
However I will stress that through the Charismatic, that is the authentic charismatic movement, great blessings have come to individuals and the Church itself. As it has also in my life.
Don't throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.
Stephanos I

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090
Likes: 16
Global Moderator
Member
Global Moderator
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by Stephanos I
Actually it was the Linn brother's that made it popular, I beleive it was in the 70's. Im not sure but I think that subsequently both left the Church and married.

Bless, Father,

Actually, Matthew Linn, SJ, continues in the priesthood. He, his brother, Dennis, and sister-in-law, Sheila Fabricant Linn, are involved with a healing ministry that appears to do a lot of parish level presentations around the country. The two brothers have several books published and I believe that there is a children's book co-authored by the three of them.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 773
Member
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 773
Dear Friends,

I am very skeptical anymore of the charismatic movement within the Catholic Church.

I agree that the charismatic gifts of tongues and prophesy have been always operative in the Church.

But I object to basing the praxis of the Church weighted so much on charismatic phenomena.

Also, I fell away from the Church for several years beginning in my early 20's through the charismatic movmement. It lead to years of spiritual confusion and darkness.

Most, though not all, of the people I knew took the protestant or fundamentalist view on nearly every issue. Some even denounced praying to Mary and the saints, confession, the Mass as Sacrifice, the status of the deuterocanonical books in the Hebrew bible. Also, most took a stereo typical conservative evangelical view of Israel and the end times. There were some who actually were traditional or orthodox catholics, but most took on Protestant views.

I did not experience any spiritual abuse or domineering personalities myself, but I was aware even then of those problems as well (e.g., "shepherding movement").

I know I developed a love of the bible during those years, and I have some warm memories of good people in the movement as I write this.

But all in all, I have to think that the movement was some what destructive to my spiritual life. It led to years of darkness.

I visited a charismatic Mass recently which had a healing service afterwards. I found it very long and arduous, and I felt it even was a slightly manipulative environment, in the sense that the priest seemed to be applying pressure on people's foreheads in order to simulate them being "slain in the spirit" (which I have trouble with anyway). I too, came forward for healing, and felt he was pressing hard on my head.

I have gone through both a fundamentalistic stage and a very liberal theological stage in my faith journey, and I am very grateful to find a path as an orthodox Eastern Catholic.


Blessings,


Lance



A Byzantine Christian in a Postmodern World [byzantinechristian.blogspot.com]

Last edited by lanceg; 01/10/09 09:41 PM.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
This phenomena known as the "charismatic" movement can be summed up in one word. Prelest. Spiritual deception. The warnings against it by the Church Fathers are innumerable. But I will quote one that the charismatics tend to view as one of their own.

"Even a pious person is not immune to spiritual sickness if he does not have a wise guide -- either a living person or a spiritual writer. This sickness is called _prelest, or spiritual delusion, imagining oneself to be near to God and to the realm of the divine and supernatural. Even zealous ascetics in monasteries are sometimes subject to this delusion, but of course, laymen who are zealous in external struggles (podvigi) undergo it much more frequently. Surpassing their acquaintances in struggles of prayer and fasting, they imagine that they are seers of divine visions, or at least of dreams inspired by grace. In every event of their lives, they see special intentional directions from God or their guardian angel. And then they start imagining that they are God's elect, and often try to foretell the future. The Holy Fathers armed themselves against nothing so fiercely as against this sickness -- prelest."

St. Seraphim of Sarov



Alexandr

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Yes - the Fathers and St. Seraphim warn against prelest. But it does not follow from that that the movement itself is defined by prelest. I would think it valuable to your argument to make those connections on specific points.

And I am not arguing that there is no prelest within the movement.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2025 (Forum 1998-2025). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0