www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Living a double life

...okay, not in a real sense. But, how many Eastern Catholics regularly attend Orthodox services in order to fill a void that their home parish is not providing. like Saturday Vespers. Is this type of behavior healthy? I for one will attend Orthodox services when ever I am able. I recently attended a small ROCOR parish, and WOW!

Mike

I suspect this sort of attendance pattern would be more common among "Greek Catholics by choice" who (perhaps raised RC or Protestant) have an interest in (forgive the ad hoc expression) "Soaking up as much Byzantineness as possible". Of course I have known Greek Catholics who have divided families and attend EO and EC parishes regularly... Melkites and Antiochians are well known for this among their extended families.

I myself attend a Macedonian Orthodox parish on occasion. I am treated with fraternal warmth on each and every occasion. Some do seem a bit puzzled why I am there... Not because I am Greek Catholic, but because I claim no Macedonian ancestory. (This befuddles - or at least bemuses a few pious elderly souls who are convinced that I must at least have one Macedonian ancestor in the woodpile to be interested in the Macedonian Church!)

An Orthodox mission uses our parish, and on one occasion I have stayed for their liturgy, on another, I have attended their vespers.

I wouldn't call it a double life, rather I would think of it as a full life. Yes since there is a dearth of regular vespers in the Ruthenian Byzantine church in general, including our local parish, I do quite often visit the local OCA parish for vespers and often for presanctified Liturgy on Friday evenings during Lent since our parish only does Wednesday evenings. At those times of the year when our parish does vespers, I am of course there, being a cantor. It only seems like a double life during the times of year when the calendars differ. I often find myself having to ask which tone or liturgical week we are in when at the OCA parish ( I often sing with their choir)

Considering that the OCA parish choir along with the Russian Catholic choir and with our own parish choir sang for our wedding, I don't have too much problem with crossing certain boundaries.

When I visit the OCA or Antiochian parishes for Divine Liturgy I never go up for communion! That would be too much.

Overall I find it is very uplifting and beneficial to keep in touch with our Orthodox brothers. Aside from particular dogmatic differences, we are the pretty much the same family.

In continuation of a long-standing custom of my Irish family, I normally visited seven churches on Good Friday (now my arthritis precludes this). When I was in Toronto, geography dictated that I would visit the Macedonian Church, the Serbian Church, the Bulgarian Church, and one or more Greek Churches. It was pleasant to pray in each of them, and then to notice particular customs.

Fr. Serge

Mike,

I am a cradle Byzantine Catholic who has been attending Orthodox services for almost 30 years to fill that void that our own parishes will not fill with Vespers and Matins. Participation in these services has been a large part of my formation as a Christian, and I have benefited greatly from it. Prayer of this type is most certainly healthy.

Currently, I attend the ROCOR Cathedral in Washington, DC about twice a month for Saturday Vigil and as many of the Old Calendar feasts as I can. Only distance keeps me from going every week (it is a 50 minute drive each way on Saturdays and longer on weeknights).

Go to the ROCOR parish as often as you can, for the prayer and for the understanding of these services. Then you can intelligently work for them in our Churches. But beware that our bishops and clergy are not intimate with these services, so they see them as more a chore rather than as salvation.

John

Why is visiting and praying with Orthodox Christians living a double life?
One can be a faithful Byzantine Catholic and still pray with the Orthodox. I do often and I am a priest but there is no doubt as to where my ultimate loyalty lies.
Stephanos I

I enjoy praying with my Coptic friends. I learn much from them and I wish the adult education at my parish was like theirs. I pray with them and chant with them, but I do not participate in their liturgy. I do not see it as a double life. There is much I can learn about what it means to be Catholic from their narrative and I do not find myself the worse for it.

Terry

John,

What do you mean when you say that your bishops and clergy are not intimate with the services and see them as a chore?

Do they not root in a monastic background where they may have seen the spiritual graces first hand?

Terry

None of the BCC Bishops is a 'Monk'. The BCC took on the Latin practice of ordaining 'White' clergy (Diocesan) to the Episcopate some time ago. The 'low Mass' mentality is still quite strong amongs BCC clergy, so it is quite refreshing that some of the clergy have introduced public celebration of the Offices in church. It is going to take a while until this is the norm and wont cease when the priest moves on to another parish.

In this case, I am happy to disagree. The Bishop responsible for Greek-Catholics in Ireland, His Grace Kyr Hlib (Lonchyna) is a Studite monk - and even a relatively brief conversation will leave almost anyone in no doubt that "he really is a monk", as one Latin priest here said to me with unconcealed admiration.

Fr. Serge

Metropolitan Basil came from a monastic order (Byzantine Franciscans): see here [archeparchy.org].

Bishop William Skurla is also a Franciscan, as is Bishop John Kudrick.

Both were part fo the RC Franciscan extended family. Both left and were incardinated as diocesan priests some years before being selected to be bishops.

Terry,

Historically, even in our monasteries our liturgical services have been neglected. Since they do not pray these services in full on a daily basis they do not know them well, and that lack of intimacy with the Divine Services causes people to see them as a chore rather than as salvation. Compare it, if you will, to the first time one might use a computer. Oftentimes one is overwhelmed. It is natural to withdraw and not want any part of it. But if one perseveres one eventually gains an intimate knowledge of how to use a computer (how to use e-mail, surf the net, write a letter, etc.). The more one uses the computer the more one appreciates what one can accomplish, and one accomplishes more. Liturgy is similar in the more one prays it the more one understands the beauty of what we have received and are called to hand on.

In recent generations our Church has sought to distance itself from its own liturgical tradition. The reasons for this are complex, and very much tied to a lack of self-esteem by our Church. This led to a constant re-inventing ourselves into a Church we thought others might respect. But in the end you need to be who you already are, and the re-invention of our liturgical tradition by each succeeding generation will never work. This is why Rome has wisely directed our bishops to restore our tradition before thinking of changing it, and then changing it only in unison with others who share it (if only the bishops had not rejected this wisdom!). If we attend to the tree of our liturgical tradition, and celebrate it and nourish it, it will blossom. There is no need for each generation to take a hatchet to it. As depressing as the RDL is, I am confident that our Church will someday celebrate our tradition rather then reject it with continuing reforms.

There is also the practical reality of the ‘bricks & mortar’ issues. Things like bills and maintenance tend to crowd out Liturgy, usually unintentionally. But when Liturgy becomes one of many functions of a parish rather than its sole reason for existence (i.e., the worship of the Lord) people also conclude that the Lord can be second in their lives. And that has a profound, negative impact on the whole Church.

I suspect my post will further draw this thread away from its original question. My apologies in advance for that and if this second topic continues we can split the thread.

John

Strictly speaking, the Franciscans are not monks in the first place - this goes right back to Saint Francis of Assisi. Solemn, sung Offices are not in the least characteristic of the Franciscan tradition.

Fr. Serge