www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Prostration in the Divine Liturgy

PAVEL:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

Father Ambrose has just given us a great link to show how each prostration type is to be done.

In Christ,
BOB

Yes, I knew I had seen something recently I just could not recall where.

PAVEL:

That's what we're here to do--help one another.

BOB

http://www.saintelias.com/ca/etiquette/sign.php

This was helpful...

So in the BCC, when should we make a metany (poyasnoy poklon) and when should we make a poklony (zemnoy poklon)?

I see folks make the metany during the Trisagion and during the epiclesis. Not sure what is proper to the Ruthenian Rescension, though.

I know that the zemnoy poklon is made during Pre-sanctified Liturgy, but what other times are appropriate?

Just trying to sort out the whens of the partial and full reverences.

I should have asked if I have these terms right--metany (poyasnoy poklon) and poklony (zemnoy poklon)?

I checked my copy of the "Old Orthodox Prayer Book" from Erie, Penn., and see that a metany or поясной поклон: “bow to the waist” is appropriate:

1.) At two points during The Great Entrance
2.) When the priest exclaims: "Take, eat" and "Drink ye all of it"

Interesting. Nothing is mentioned about a 'bow to the waist" during the Trisagion or the Epiclesis.

Also, there are several zemnoy poklons (земной поклон) prescribed during Divine Liturgy too.

Were the Pre-Nikonian reverences preserved in the Ruthenian Rescension?

Indeed it is. I cross myself in response to Father's blessing. I see that this is inappropriate. I'll try to remember simply to bow. I love crossing myself. United Methodist never did that, though I did on occasion. It is indeed like saying Hallelujah or Amen.

CDL

Why? There are customs and there are customs and with deference to http://www.saintelias.com/ca/etiquette/sign.php there is also the Ordo of the Ruthenian Recension, given in some detail below for context, but note 11 and g:

General Rules
11. The small bow, inclining the head and shoulders slightly while making the sign of the Cross without extending the hand to the knees or to the ground either before or after the sign of the Cross, is used on these occasions:
a) when one first enters the Altar to approach the Holy Table, and when one finally departs from the Holy Table and leaves the Altar; while making the bows, one also kisses the Holy Table;
b) at the beginning of any office when one says: Blessed is our God... or, if there is no priest, when one says: Through the prayers of our holy Fathers...;
c) at the Trisagion (three times), and also when one says: We bow to Your Cross ...;
d) at: Come, let us worship... (three times);
e) when one says three Alleluias at the end of the stichologia (three times, bowing once at each three-fold Alleluia);
f) whenever the three Persons of the Life-giving Trinity are mentioned together;
g) whenever one receives a blessing from the priest;
h) as often as one comes before the royal doors for reading or chanting, and when one departs from this place after this reading or chanting;
i) as often as one passes before the Holy Table and before the iconostasis;
j) as often as prescribed by the rubrics.
At the beginning and at the end of the Gospel it is proper to make the sign of the Cross upon oneself without inclining the head and shoulders.
It is also proper for the deacon to show reverence by inclining his head and shoulders a little to the celebrating priest before leaving the Altar to sing the ektenies, and when the deacon returns to the Altar.

I found this very informative.
Thank you,
Kathleen

ajk,

That is good to read. I shall reverse field and continue to offer the sign of the cross when I am blessed by a priest.

CDL

I just have a question on:
"c) at the Trisagion (three times), and also when one says: We bow to Your Cross ...;"

Even at my former GC parish, everyone crossed themselves and extended their fingers down to the floor, or as far as they could, for "We bow to Your Cross." This is not correct??

The Ordo gives, or intends to give, the generally accepted practice. Variations may also be permissible.

What Ordo does St. Elias use?

AFAIK, The Ruthenian Recension Ordo noted above applies to them.