www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Common Miracles

I've long been pondering about the fact that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches share the same miracles:

1) Incorrupt bodies (although I note that Catholic incorruptibles -- and I'm not speaking of the waxed and enhanced ones -- are sometimes more lifelike than Orthodox ones. I guess it's due to the differences in burial practices)
2) Marian apparitions and miracles
3) "Weeping" icons (except that in the West, icons weep blood or human tears, while in the East these exude myrrh)
4) Eucharistic miracles (except that in the West, this normally consists of the Host turning into physical flesh, while Eastern reports have it turning into a child; the attitude towards Eucharistic miracles is also quite different, with the West tending to celebrate these while the East tends to see these as sorrowful warnings against impiety and unbelief)
5) Clairvoyant and miracle-working elders and saints
6) Living holy men and women shining with an unearthly light (most often associated with Orthodoxy, but also present in Catholicism -- St. Louis Grignion De Montfort's face often shone with a blinding radiance when he preached)
7) Relics that exude holy oils

The only major type of miracle I can think of, that is not shared, is the Stigmata. However, I tend to think of the more frequent reports of the "uncreated Light" among Orthodox saints as a sort of balance to this.

The Catholic Church also has mystics who claimed long and elaborate interior locutions that give details about the lives of Our Lord Jesus and of Holy Mary, or which promoted new devotions and spiritualities. So far as I can tell these do not exist in Orthodoxy. But then, I count this as little since I tend to be very suspicious of private revelations.

The Orthodox Church has a highly-developed sense of "eldership" that cannot be found in the Catholic Church. However, while the Catholic Church hasn't had "elders" of the same sort as, say, Optina and Athos, it certainly has had a long series of "saints of the confessional" (of whom the last was Padre Pio) who often read hearts and dispensed advice in much the same way as the startsy.

What do you think? Why do our sadly separated Churches, share the same miracles, the same wonders? Is it a clue to the possibility that we are actually one in God's eyes? Just wondering out loud.

Speaking of clairvoyance, I had the privilege of speaking to a real spiritual daughter, witness and correspondent of the Servant of God Marie-Eugene of the Child Jesus, a Discalced Carmelite friar (1894-1967). Shortly before her own death in 2004, she related to me several stories of how Fr. Marie-Eugene read her heart and revealed her thoughts. The stories are startingly similar to what I've read in Orthodox sources about the Athonite elders and Russian startsy.

One thing is certain: if someone is making a choice between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, he shouldn't look to the miracles in each Church as a way of making his choice!

I would agree that the miracles on both sides of the aisle may point toward the split not being as big of deal to God as we make it out to be.

Stigmata: according to the Synaxarion, Saint Gregory Palamas was a stigmatic.

Fr. Serge

Really?

I second that "really?"

From the Synaxarion: Sunday of St. Gregory Palamas [holy-trinity.org]:

asianpilgrim,

this is a very interesting line of reasoning and well worth pursuing. If only "One is holy, One is Lord: Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father," then all holiness stems from Him and belongs to Him.

Very interesting...

This is the first Easterner that I have heard of having the Stigmata.

Re "The only major type of miracle I can think of, that is not shared, is the Stigmata."
There is a Latin tradition that St Paul the Apostle had something like the stigmata later given to St Francis.
In the traditional Latin Breviary for September 17 "The Holy Stigmata of St. Francis" Lesson iii has this from Galatians 6:14-18
Where the original Greek for "marks" is στιγματα "stigmata" .

Brief note;

St. Francis received the stigmata 2 years before his repose, he was on Mt. Alverna beginning a 40 day fast in honor of Archangel Michael...

I'm not so sure that this is stigmata in the sense of stigmata experienced by some Roman Catholic mystics. I think that we would need more information before coming to this conclusion. Does anyone know of an article or study on this? I think of a number of other interpretations of being "adorned with the wounds of Christ." For example, it could simply be a way of saying that he suffered physically from persecution. This is what I think St. Paul means (I do not believe that St. Paul was a stigmatic. If he were a stigmatic, it would have been something that the Fathers would have commented upon extensively).

Joe