www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Orthodox Incorruptibles

I just saw this wonderful webpage, containing the clearest pictures I've seen of Orthodox incorruptibles:

http://www.genuineorthodoxchurch.net/miraclesrelics.html

My only quibble is that the skull of St. John the Baptist is obviously not incorrupt.

One thing that impresses me is the way these incorrupt bodies are displayed without any cosmetic enhancements, wax masks and casings, or preservative treatments. I actually find these to be more edifying than the heavily waxed and enhanced bodies of not a few Catholic saints.

Someone needs to cover St. Gregory of Sinai's mouth.

Thanks for the pics.
nun Alexandra

Very interesting, thanks Asian Pilgrim.

Asianpilgrim,

But there are likewise many Catholic saints whose remains are shown as incorruptible for veneration who have had no work whatever.

I would also add that most of these pre-Schism saints on this page are also Catholic saints, just in possession of the Orthodox.

Alexis

Thank you, asianpilgrim. Those were interesting photographs.

These are the most famous "incorruptibles" of the Catholic Church:

http://listverse.com/religion/top-10-incorrupt-corpses/

I'm sorry, but St. Zita and a number of the Orthodox Saints in the earlier post look no different to me than any mummy that one can see in a museum. In fact, Dr. Bob Brier examined an "incorruptible" Catholic Saint on one of the "scientific" channels on cable and found that she had in fact been mummified.

Glad to know it just not me thinking that. Perhaps miraculously preserved would be a better designation because to me incorruptible means just that incorrupt, no discoloration, no deterioration, no shrinkage.

It is true that many "incorruptibles" were in fact mummified. Pope John XXIII is the best example, he was preserved with plastic being injected into his veins and stomach. Joseph Cardinal Slipyj was also mummified.

And many of the "incorruptibles" touted in a lot of Catholic websites are nothing more than the wax casing for the bones of these saints (for some reason, the Italians like putting the bones of saints in wax.) Others, such as Padre Pio, are partially incorrupt and have been fitted with lifelike masks. Still others were indeed found incorrupt upon exhumation, then immediately subjected to preservative treatment (best examples: St. Bernadette and St. Pius X).

(It might be pointed out, though, that Popes are buried within three tightly sealed coffins that are normally buried within a stone sarcophagus, which definitely aid in preserving the body).

However, there are Catholic incorruptibles who have not been subjected to preservatives to this very day. St. Zita is actually one of the best examples of someone whose body has been repeatedly examined and found to be preserved without artificial means. SS. Catherine of Bologna, Claire of Montefalco, Rita of Cascia, Ubald of Gubbio, Hannibal De Francia and others fall under this category.

As a rule, untreated Catholic incorruptibles do look darkened and dried up, same with the Orthodox. However, just because a body looks like a mummy doesnt mean that it is a mummy. And I've seen hundreds of pictures of unwrapped pharaonic mummies and they definitely look far worse than many of the natural, untreated Catholic and Orthodox incorruptibles. Pharaonic mummies tend to have a lot of damage and a lot of awful incisions, and many body parts are often reduced to dust upon discovery.

As for Bob Brier on the Discovery Channel, I've seen the same documentary, and I find it telling that Mr. Brier chose to examine what is, by any account, one of the worst-preserved "incorruptibles" (the Blessed in question had a completely skeletonized head). His snide remarks comparing Catholicism to Egyptian religion and accusing Pope Pius XII of doing nothing for the Jews also cast grave doubt on his impartiality.

Haven't denied that at all. See my other posts.

Ok, let's go over the list:

1) St. Bernadette -- found incorrupt, but immediately treated in wax afterwards. The "face" is actually a wax mask. I've read a description of the real face and it is dried up and sunken.

2) St. John Vianney -- really incorrupt, but the face is covered with a wax mask. It isn't even an accurate depiction of his face!

3) St. Teresa Margaret -- my kind of "incorruptible"! No preservatives (hence the dark brown color). The teeth are exposed.

4) St. Vincent De Paul -- no longer incorrupt. Bones in wax.

5) Saint Silvan -- I'll be very surprised if this isn't wax!

6) St. Veronica Giuliani -- no longer incorrupt. Bones in wax.

7) St. Zita -- really incorrupt

8) Saint John Bosco -- was never incorrupt. Bones in wax. I've read the account of his exhumation and it clearly speaks of his body being reduced to bones.

9) Pope Pius IX -- really incorrupt, head covered in silver mask. (But the papal coffins...)

10)Pope John XXIII -- oh, dear! The Holy See took pains to make it clear that he was not incorrupt, during the time of his beatification. I guess some apologists just like to fool themselves!

I was sort of perplexed by Abbot Chrysostom of Kakoraztia's inclusion. He reposed in 1988. It seems to me (someone who knows next to nothing about how fast bodies deteoriate, mind you!), that his condition is normal-to-below average on what I would expect an unpreserved person to look like after 20 years.

Alexis

Which skull of John the Baptist???
There are several places that claim to have the
skull.

The one already mentioned in the first post is from the Amiens cathedral in France.

Others include:

Church of San Silvestro in Capite in Rome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Silvestro_in_Capite

The Royal Residence Museum in Munich, Germany: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/2517783717_6b0c6a15f6.jpg?v=0

Topkapi Palace, Constantinople, Turkey
http://www.mgr.org/JdBRelics.jpg

Still other places also claim to have the head or a fragment of it.

St. John the Baptist has four skulls? No problem. One was his skull at infancy... another from his adolescence... another from his early adulthood and the last one was the skull he had when he got beheaded. See? Very logical.