The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
JustinWJustiniano, Chauntsinger, barabara737th, jwag, Georg
5,963 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
2 members (2 invisible), 268 guests, and 53 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,378
Posts416,670
Members5,963
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza
Member
Offline
Catholic Gyoza
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
The big difference is that a bunch of Sui Juris Churches are all Catholic and each Protestant community is an entity all to itself.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5
I
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by carson daniel lauffer
Is unity only a political endeavor? I don't understand how a bunch of sui iuris Churches is all that much different than a bunch of Protestant Churches, not that I have any intention of becoming a Protestant.

CDL


Sui iuris churches without functioning synods sound abnormal to me.

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Grateful
Member
Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Originally Posted by Ivan Putovati
Sui iuris churches without functioning synods sound abnormal to me.

And sui iuris eastern churches without a married presbyterate sounds abnormal too.

Balamand ended uniatism as a policy.

And so, if the Eastern Catholic sui iuris churches want to survive and grow outside of their homelands, they can do so by two ways: more immigration from the old country, or conversion.

If conversion, there has to be a reason why.

Holiness is a good reason: such as through correct practice of the Liturgy and the fullness of the Eastern Tradition.

Allowing a married priesthood would be another big draw, if Latin rite married men would be allowed to become priests thereby.

But, that last point is probably not going to happen.

So, the logical emphasis should be on cultivating holiness through the fullness of the Eastern Tradition and on making that better known for those who might be seeking it.

just my two cents...

-- John

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115
Balamand sold us out!

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Originally Posted by Predanije
Balamand sold us out!

I think that's clear. What are we going to do about it, if anythng?

CDL

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 97
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 97
Balamand makes clear the distinction between particular ministry and the big picture. The big picture necessitates the gradual dieing out of the BCC as it has failed as a "bridge" to reunion. The BCC then is not redundant in its particular ministry but in the big picture has become a wedge issue and so must go the way of say the Ambrosian rite, Celtic rite, or Milanese rite.

Jon

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by Athanasius
Balamand makes clear the distinction between particular ministry and the big picture. The big picture necessitates the gradual dieing out of the BCC as it has failed as a "bridge" to reunion. The BCC then is not redundant in its particular ministry but in the big picture has become a wedge issue and so must go the way of say the Ambrosian rite, Celtic rite, or Milanese rite.

Jon

Oh so we are just suppose to roll over and die? What if there is a number of us don't want to go away. What then my friend?

Viking

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Grateful
Member
Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
The trick is to find a new way to be relevant --to more than the existing membership-- outside of the traditional homelands.

If the Vatican and the bishops would openly allow married men from the Latin Rite to switch to the Eastern churches and get ordained, the Eastern Catholic Churches would grow voluminously. But, that isn't going to happen.

So, being an Eastern Catholic really does come down to being a different way to be Catholic. The growth and future survival then depends on living that out and marketing it.

-- John


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by harmon3110
If the Vatican and the bishops would openly allow married men from the Latin Rite to switch to the Eastern churches and get ordained, the Eastern Catholic Churches would grow voluminously. But, that isn't going to happen.

But what about the men in our Greek Catholic Churches now? Surely, we have vocations to both the minor and major orders in our parishes too.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
The big difference is that a bunch of Sui Juris Churches are all Catholic and each Protestant community is an entity all to itself.

What makes a bunch of independent Churches Catholic and not Protestant?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Originally Posted by JohnS.
Originally Posted by harmon3110
If the Vatican and the bishops would openly allow married men from the Latin Rite to switch to the Eastern churches and get ordained, the Eastern Catholic Churches would grow voluminously. But, that isn't going to happen.

But what about the men in our Greek Catholic Churches now? Surely, we have vocations to both the minor and major orders in our parishes too.

John,

This whole mess is pitiful. But as you and Karl both observe where are we to go. We have no vision as part of the Catholic Church nor do we have one as separate from the Catholic Church. We don't wish to be independent and we aren't treated as if we are part of anything. We find our hope in being loyal to the vision of a local congregation. That doesn't seem very...well...universal.

There are two analogies I can think of: When I was a teenager I attended a Church in which we saw very devout people who would make the rounds of various like minded congregations. Their holiness and giving were exemplary but they weren't really members of anyone of the Churches. Then there is the example of the traveling monks as in the Way of the Pilgrim. Perhaps we are all traveling monks but just don't know it. How is a priesthood to be developed from such a traveling ecclesiastical community?

I have no answers. Just numerous questions.

CDL

BTW Observing the actions of many Eastern Catholics over the last decade I think my model is pretty accurate. Look how many from our own congregation has come from or gone to other Eastern Catholic Churches. Look how many people on this very board have done the same thing over the last few years. I'm still not clear how that behavior is any differnet from Protestants but it may be.

Last edited by carson daniel lauffer; 03/10/09 02:46 AM.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 1
E
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
Offline
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
E
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Athanasius
The big picture necessitates the gradual dieing out of the BCC as it has failed as a "bridge" to reunion.
Jon,

I will agree that in the past, the ECCs were definitely less than effective as a "bridge" to reunion. For the most part, the EC bishops were concerned with ministering to their own flock and trying to avoid offending the RCs (which in practice generally meant staying away from them).

To function effectively as a bridge, it will be necessary for all the ECCs to have frequent, meaningful contact with both the RCC and the EOC. By "meaningful," I mean freely discussing what they see as the issues affecting the Church, and sharing their own vision for dealing with these issues, as well as finding ways to work together to achieve this. When bishops--and Christians at all levels--are able to do this, we will already be making strides toward reunion.

While I grant that this could be done by the RCC and EOC, even without the presence of the ECCs, I would contend that the only reason for the ECCs to be an obstacle to this process is for them to choose to be (in which case, it would be a kind of voluntary redundancy crazy ).

Let us pray that the meetings this week of the Ukrainian bishops of North America--Orthodox and Catholic--will be successful in bringing about just this kind of conciliatory and cooperative attitude, for this attitude is nothing less than the active living of the Gospel. grin


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Irish Melkite 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2023 (Forum 1998-2023). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5