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Ukrainian Hierarchs of North America met in Clearwater, Florida last week to discuss Church matters.

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For the fourth time in the last eight years the hierarchs of the Ukrainian Catholic and Ukrainian Orthodox Churches in North America have met in a brotherly “Encounter” to discuss the relationship between the two Churches and the common concerns they share in shepherding the faithful entrusted to their spiritual care.

The meeting took place in Clearwater, Florida on 12-13 March following separate meetings of the two groups of hierarchs just preceding the Encounter.

http://www.uocofusa.org/news_090313_1.html

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The hierarchs are of one mind in the belief that the Church must reclaim its place as the moral conscience of the Ukrainian nation.


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The consensus of opinion of the Encounter participants, having heard from the Orthodox hierarchs about the recent visit of Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I to Kyiv, was that it was a positive event, which can result in consequences beneficial to all Christianity in Ukraine.


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The Encounter participants repeatedly stressed that there is much more that unites, rather than divides us in fulfilling our responsibilities before God.

They are convinced that the Holy Spirit is at work in their gatherings and that there is a need to closely examine the paths to a deeper ecclesiastical relationship between them, benefitting all the faithful entrusted to their care.


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May God grant many years to the Ukrainian hierarchy for the wisdom and pastoral concern for their faithful that they have demonstrated through these meetings.


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Of primary concern to the hierarchs was the present state of ecclesiastical life in Ukraine in all jurisdictions and the fate of the Churches under the present unfortunate political divisions within the Ukrainian government and in Ukrainian society as a whole. In the minds of all the hierarchs present at the Encounter, Christian witness in Ukraine is not only endangered by the disarray in government and societal life, but damage is actually being done to the efforts toward ecclesiastical unity and the Christian service to those in Ukrainian society who are most in need.



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Lengthy discussion was devoted to a thorough examination of Church life in both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches in North America. The hierarchs were greatly concerned about declining membership in so many parishes and the conditions, which seem to exacerbate this critical problem.


I mean no disrespect, but I wonder if this "primary concern" with the state of affairs in Ukraine sends a message to the faithful in the US that acually causes the declining membership?


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I mean no disrespect, but I wonder if this "primary concern" with the state of affairs in Ukraine sends a message to the faithful in the US that acually causes the declining membership?

I find this article to be very poorly worded. I wonder exactly who wrote it. The English is just so awkward, I would venture to guess that the writer is not an English native speaker.
Just one example "Encounter"? Wouldn't "meeting" be a better word?
I can't help wondering if the writer misinterpreted the discussions at the meeting. I spoke to Vladyka Yuri, Archbishop of Toronto and Eastern Canada, UOCC about the meeting. While the current economical situation in Ukraine and also political situation is known to all, the meeting was called to discuss religious issues.

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hmmm
I.F.

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Does anyone know how many members each of the Churches have in North America?

Alexis

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Deacon John wrote:
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I mean no disrespect, but I wonder if this "primary concern" with the state of affairs in Ukraine sends a message to the faithful in the US that acually causes the declining membership?


None taken since most Eastern Christian churches are not growing, and some are declining more rapidly than either the Ukrainian Orthodox or Catholic Churches. Certainly this hypothesis does not explain any decline for non-Ukrainian churches.

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I find this article to be very poorly worded. I wonder exactly who wrote it. The English is just so awkward, I would venture to guess that the writer is not an English native speaker.
Just one example "Encounter"? Wouldn't "meeting" be a better word?
I can't help wondering if the writer misinterpreted the discussions at the meeting. I spoke to Vladyka Yuri, Archbishop of Toronto and Eastern Canada, UOCC about the meeting. While the current economical situation in Ukraine and also political situation is known to all, the meeting was called to discuss religious issues


I don't disagree with the issue of translation, and look for a much more detailed description of the joint meeting between the Ukrainian Orthodox and Greek Catholic hierarchs in various eparchial papers or notable journals such as Logos. Many years to all the hierarchs involved, and may these joint meetings and dialogue continue. It is also my understanding that the situation in Ukraine did not by any means monopolize the proceedings.

Since the planning of the Millenium there has been fairly frequent joint Ukrainian Orthodox/Greek Catholic hierarchal meetings and dialogue, certainly more than any other parallel Orthodox/Greek Catholic churches that I can think of, and it is a blessing that the hierarchs have these meetings and fraternal dialogue.

The term "encounter" has been used for a number of years for these types of meetings amongst the Greek Catholic hierarchs and I do not believe that is necessarily an improper term.

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Originally Posted by Miller
Just one example "Encounter"? Wouldn't "meeting" be a better word?

Originally Posted by Diak
The term "encounter" has been used for a number of years for these types of meetings amongst the Greek Catholic hierarchs and I do not believe that is necessarily an improper term.

Miller,

It does seem an odd choice - a word more appropriate to the chance meeting with your former neighbor than a planned gathering of hierarchs but, as Deacon Randy notes, it seems to have become the 'in' catchword for both inter- and intra- ecclesial hierarchical meetings of late.

Interesting that the UO Eparch from Brazil was there as an observer. That may portend future meetings of the sort among the South American hierarchs - or a future meeting that brings together all those of the Americas. Also impressive was the level of attendance; I believe only 3 were recorded as absent.

Many years,

Neil


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I dunno - I think 'encounter' indicates a less formal type of meeting , which for this could be a good thing

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I've no idea how this happened, but the word "meeting" has acquired a significance in Russian and Ukrainian which it does not have in English. Linguistics offers many such strange phenomena.

Fr. Serge

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Question:
Why is it that instead of rejoicing over the wonderful efforts and fraternalism between our Ukrainian Orthodox and Ukrainian Greek Catholic hierarchy, some choose to find fault with the choice of the word "encounter".
Now really, how petty!
What's the saying? "Get a life!"

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Father Bless!

Could you explain further? Exactly what kind of meaning has "meeting" acquired in those languages? Something more important? Something more sinister? I'm curious.

Tim


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Maybe because it is symbolic of the whole article. After talking to my bishop, he said the meeting was concerned with pastoral issues, yet this article as someone pointed out discusses "political issues" as a primary concern.
After talking to my bishop, I don't think this article written in stilted English really reflects what happened at the meeting or the pastoral issues discussed.

This is another article written about another meeting.
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Ukrainian Catholic Bishops of Canada and the United States of America conclude successful meeting
2009-03-16
Clearwater, FL - 2009-03-14 - Eight bishops representing the Ukrainian Catholic hierarchy of North America gathered for two days of meetings in Clearwater, Florida 10-11 February. Most Rev. Stefan Soroka, Archbishop of Philadelphia and Metropolitan for Ukrainian Catholics in the USA welcomed the participants of the two-day meeting, “It is good to be together for the next few days. It will provide us a chance to pray together, to discuss both our shared challenges and blessings.”

His Grace Stefan headed up the American delegation consisting of Most Rev. Richard Seminack of St. Nicholas Eparchy of Chicago, Most Rev. Paul Chomnycky OSBM, of the Stamford Eparchy and Most Rev. John Bura, Auxiliary Bishop of Philedelphia.

Most Rev. Lawrence Huculak OSBM, Archbishop of Winnipeg and Metropolitan for Ukrainian Catholics in Canada led the four-member delegation from Canada also consisting of Most Rev. David Motiuk of the Edmonton Eparchy, Most Rev. Ken Nowakowski of the New Westminster Eparchy and Most Rev. Bryan Bayda C.Ss.R., of the Saskatoon Eparchy.

The bishops received a presentation by Mr. Guy Camarata and Mr. Charles Neubecker who have been working closely with His Beatitude Lubomyr Cardinal Husar, head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Patriarchal Curia on the development and overall structuring of the Patriarchal Curial offices in Ukraine. Their presentation to the bishops was on the “Strategic Sudies & Roadmapping – Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church”. The bishops along with Mr. Camarata and Mr. Neubecker discussed ways of positive areas of support for the work of the Curia and underlined the need to ensure good communications.


The two-day meeting allowed the bishops to evaluate and further develop the areas of pastoral collaboration between the American and Canadian Metropolia especially in the areas of seminary formation.

Immediately following their meeting the Ukrainian Catholic Hierarchy of North America met with the Hierarchy of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of North America for a two-day meeting. This encounter allowed the Bishops of the two Churches the opportunity to discuss areas of pastoral concern for their faithful of the Ukrainian communities in Canada and the USA. Contact person:
Most Rev. Ken Nowakowski
nweparchy@telus.net

Notice the difference in language?

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Dear Tim,

Not particularly sinister, but it is a linguistic nuisance in that it has produced a false cognate. It probably reflects a sociological situation.

"Sobranije" in Russian and "Zibrannia" in Ukrainian each mean a meeting, understood in the formal sense - if I meet you for lunch that is not a "meeting" in the formal sense. A formal meeting is conducted according to rules of order, and has some sort of decision-making function.

But early in the twentieth century (if not late in the nineteenth century) the community seems to have taken the notion that "Sobranije" in Russian and "Zibrannia" in Ukrainian somehow lacked the mystique of a business meeting - as one lady put it to me, the Russian/Ukrainian term means a simple get-together! There is no linguistic basis for this, but it is entirely possible that back in Eastern Europe the same people had never participated in a formal business meeting, and hence felt the need for a seperate term for such a business meeting.

Hence the calque "miting" entered both languages as spoken in North America, sometimes with tragicomic results that must be seen and heard to be believed. It was (naturally) the decision-making function of such a "miting" which fascinated the participants, and they soon came to think - erroneously - that such a "miting" was/is omnipotent. I prefer not to give examples, but I can think of only too many.

As often happens, this calque or loan-word was carried back to Russia and Ukraine and the neighboring countries, probably by returning migrant workers. At first it didn't mean much in Eastern Europe and was therefore little used. But as the USSR and the other Communist countries of Eastern Europe began to collapse, another linguistic phenomenon appeared: the "miting" became a large public gathering, and "miting" suddenly became a verb as well as a noun! This time we at least know why it happened; it was a reaction to the restrictions which had made it impossible for any business meeting to take place without the permission and supervision of the Communist Party. A "miting", on the other hand, came to mean a large gathering or rally which neither had nor wanted any authorization from the Communist Party, but instead claimed the right to pass judgement on the Communists.

Ah, the joys of languages!

Fr. Serge

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Just read something about this "Encounter" is the latest copy of "Visnyk" (April 2009), page 18. It is not online yet.

"With the Ukrainian Catholic Hierarchy discussion focused on joint cooperation between the churches. They discussed a possible joint trip to the Phanar and the Vatican to talk to church leaders about ecclesiastical concerns in Ukraine. A summery of the events will be forthcoming."

Any more info from the Ukrainian Catholic side yet?

For the meeting of the Ukrainian Orthodox Hierarchs: discussion of coordinating church camps and having joint clergy conferences. Also supporting orphanages in Ukraine.

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