The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Sergiusz, zeroneet, Atomic Parakeet 1, Anna777, HeraclitusTheObscu
5,830 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
2 members (Adamcsc, akemner), 62 guests, and 19 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,141
Posts414,752
Members5,830
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#319963 04/25/09 06:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
I am not sure if this is the right forum for this question or not, but I trust that if it is not one of the moderators will move it for me.
I have been an evangelical Christian since 1968 and was newly chrismated into the Antiochian Orthodox Church just a few weeks before Pascha. I am an avid reader, and am constantly reading as much as I can get my hands on .... but, even with that, I feel the need for a Spiritual Director. I would like to be able to use my Priest, but he will not be officially ordained for a few months yet. In the meantime, I hesitate to find another as I don't want to be misled either doctrinally or life-style-wise.
Do any of you have any suggestions for this interim period for me? Books? Anything?
Thanks so much,
abby
<*)))><

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302
A
Roman Catholic
Member
Offline
Roman Catholic
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302
I am rather limited in my knowledge but it seems to me that in the Eastern Churches spiritual directors are normaly not priests. So you don't have to limit yourself to the clergy. smile

Christ Has Risen !!!

In Jesus and Mary

David

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,079
Likes: 11
Global Moderator
Member
Offline
Global Moderator
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,079
Likes: 11
David,

While not all Spiritual Directors are priests, it would be rather a stretch to say that they are not normally priests.

Abby,

I'll leave it to others here, more knowledgable than me, to advise how one might best go about searching for and selecting a Spiritual Director.

However I will offer something that you might want to consider. As a Western Rite member of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese, the question comes to mind as to whether you would want (and/or your spiritual needs be best served by) a priest also of the Western Rite or that's not necessarily a consideration. (The latter path would likely offer you more options/choices - and I'm certain that there are folks here who could elaborate on the pros and cons of the two approaches, beyond the consideration of availability.)

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
Hi Neil ..... I'd appreciate anyone's input regarding this ... thanks so much.
abby
<*)))><

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
Yesterday, after our Mass, our Interim Priest (until our Sub-Deacon is ordained in a few months), who is an elderly, retired gentleman, told us to please "use" him while he is here. As I got to thinking about this, I realized that to not chat with him several times about Orthodoxy and the Orthodox Life would be stupid on my part.....I have so much to learn that I don't believe one can learn in books. I am going to call him today and set up a time to see him .... hopefully, I can "use" him in this way until God opens up another avenue.
abby
<*)))><

#320424 04/30/09 03:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
Hi everyone. I will make this as brief as possible. I am newly Orthodox after having spent 40 years in Evangelicalism. My 3 children were raised in Evangelical churches. The oldest is the most rigid in her beliefs (Sola Scriptura), with the other 2 being open to conversations ... they may not understand or agree, but we can talk. This morning I spoke with my oldest daughter and somehow the subject of praying for the dead came up. In my newness I tried to tell her my limited understanding, and she promptly said "that's not Biblical." Her tone was sharp. I know this is merely the beginning of these conversations with her, and I neither want to anger her and debate her, nor do I wish to back down from my beliefs, which are themselves still in their very primary learning and understanding stages.
Can anyone help me with this? Since I'm sure this is just the beginning, is there any book you could direct me to which would have this type of thing in it ... perhaps questions Protestants would ask us and clear, rather simple answers? I love my daughter, and since I'm going to visit them for several days, I know this is just the beginning.
Thanks for all your help.
abby
<*)))><

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,858
Likes: 21
Moderator
Member
Online Content
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,858
Likes: 21
Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

You've got an uphill battle if you bring up these subjects to someone who is rigid in the belief of Sola Scripture, which is itself unBiblical.

The problem is that you have the books of Maccabbees which points to this belief in the Old Testament. However these books are omitted by most versions of the KJV because of Puritan influence.

Good luck.

Our belief springs from the idea of the Communion of Saints and there is abundant Patristic teaching supporting this belief and practice. However most people who hold the opposite position already think that the Fathers were off the track so appealing to their witness is probably fruitless.

You have the problem of many a new convert. Those you left behind, so to speak, see you as somehow crazy or off the wall or lost so trying to enlighten them with your new-found faith is a tough sell.

In Christ,

BOB

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
You are so right, Bob, and believe me, we were all staunch Protestants for many years. I'm grateful 2 of my 3 kids aren't antagonistic to this, but this could be very difficult with my oldest. I don't plan to bring anything up, but if she asks directly, I'll try to answer her to the best of my limited understanding. If it gets too stressful, I'll just have to say it may be best if we didn't talk about it. I hate that as I've always had a good, open, relationship with all 3 kids about things of faith, but now I realize that this could be a problem with my oldest ... I don't want it to, and will try my best to avoid that.
Thanks for taking the time to respond ...
abby
<*)))><

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
In addition to what Bob has said, I'll add that Orthodox Jews even to this day pray for the dead in their Liturgy and it was common practice in the New Testament era, yet we hear no criticism of it in the New Testament; nor do we hear any criticism from the apostolic fathers. If praying for the dead was some radically pagan idea added to Christianity, one would expect to find some folks complaining about it.

Joe

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,663
Likes: 12
John
Member
Offline
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,663
Likes: 12
First, let others see the joy of Christ in your life. That will be attractive, and will break down barriers.

Second, when entering into discussions, try the following tactic. Yes, I once believed the same thing about issue like Sola Scriptura'. Then I studied what the early Christians believed. Here is the evidence. What do you think? How did the Church get so far away from understanding that (insert issue - 'how Scripture is really the first and foremost product of Holy Tradition').

When you start by saying you believed what they still believe, and how you examined the evidence and changed your mind to conform with the Church, it can lay a foundation for others to do the same.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,582
Likes: 1
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,582
Likes: 1
I'll add only one thing to what has been said before.

You said
Quote
I love my daughter, and since I'm going to visit them for several days, I know this is just the beginning.

From that I would take it that your children do not live with you. If that is the case then you will just have to tread very very carefully .

I think that both BOB [ Theophan] and Admin John have given you the best clue as to how to handle it - stating gently that you used to believe as she did and then after a lot of study your views changed, and then carry on as John has suggested.

If indeed they are not living with you - you really have an uphill battle as they will not be seeing you each day - and there will be other influences on them , their father and friends .



Good luck - and remember that sweet things attract smile Don't keep hitting them over the head with a four by four smile

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 59
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 59
Many evangelicals object to praying for the dead on the premise that since the "saved" are in heaven, they don't need our prayers - and since the "lost" are in hell, they cannot benefit from them. So apart from it's supposedly being "un-Biblical," they view it as a waste of effort (at best) and superstition (at worst). But as I understand the Eastern Christian perspective, those who have died in Christ - including even the Saints - are in a continual mode of spiritual growth. So we pray to God for their "continual growth in thy love and service" (according to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer). As CS Lewis wrote in The Last Battle we are called to go "further up and further in."

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
Our Lady's Slave ... no, they don't live with me. They are all adults, the two oldest being married and my oldest daughter has 2 children. My X-husband (we were divorced 3 years ago after a 40 year marriage), since he retired, has moved down to where my girls live. My children are 37, 35, and 26.
Thanks much,
abby
<*)))><

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 147
Thank you all for your kind and helpful responses. They are very encouraging. I agree totally that my life will have to speak for itself. Fortunately, my other two children, although I'm sure they don't understand why I made the change, are not at all confrontational with it and we can discuss it without antagonism. Again, thank you all so much. I am grateful for this forum.
abby
<*)))><

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 190
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 190
Yes, it may be a battle, but with patients and prayers, you may be able to work through it.

I would study just how the biblical it truely is (http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/saints.html)(http://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html), then show her peacefuly.

The history of the bible might be a good read for her too so she can understand how it has been devistated by the ages who made it what they wanted it.(http://www.myjewishlearning.com/tex...r_Ancient_Texts/Books_of_Maccabees.shtml) (http://www.bible-history.com/links....=Church+History&subcat_name=History+)



Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5